Lets discuss our WW rankings

This should do it sir 

Okay here's one. Why do you have Nick Diaz in your top 10; he's retired.

Why do you have Jake Shields in your top 10? He fights at middleweight, and had no impressive wins at Welterweight (except that robbery against Kampmann)


My rankings are outdated. I will fix them now.

I fixed mine. I firmly believe Pierce is a top 10 fighter, and I have Askren at 11, simply because he fights cans. 

Matt Brown is tentatively at 7; however, I'm still quite skeptical once he starts fighting people in the top 10 (although Pyle was close)

Saffedine is fringe for me.

** Correction, I forgot Shields fought Woodley at Welterweight, and fought Herman at MW. Despite that fact, he has no impressive victories.

I scored both the Woodley fight and the Kampmann fight against Jake Shields. The Akiyama fight was the only clear cut win at WW. Definitely not top 10 worthy.

Pierce is legit. I can dig a top 10 ranking.

* Edited at 08.31.2013, 3:54 AM ET *

You are posting in sets of 3 Nik. Maybe you are the one who is upset.

I must be blind... I didn't see it @Frankin and I looked like 5 times! Thanks Blue Moon.

@Lopati... I can't lie... I did have a damn sandwich... I will find where you're hiding!

Here is the problem.  When someone like me, who is polarizing in the house, tries to conduct a serious thread, and invests a lot of good research time on WW, comes up with a Top 40 WW list, it will necessarily be somewhat soft and fluid after #15, and almost impossible to defend.

And even the Top 6-15 are so subjective that it is pretty much arbitrary, guesswork, intuitive and instinctive.  Most members here understand that and are not given to sharp criticism of others' lists, mostly to avoid having their own lists nit-picked to death.  

It's when someone who has been extremely harsh in the past comes in here, and uses the wrong tone, wrong wording, wrong attitude that the problem starts.  That kind of posting takes the attention off the WW fighters and puts it on a member.  That is a HI-JACK.  It's an attempt to derail the thread to attack a member.

And Lopati and Brazillian Jitz know this only too well, since they have developed the sniping to a gutter artform.

But past perpetual offender Brazillian J. wants to discuss SERIOUSLY?  THAT'S a first.  On one of my threads anyhow.  

But just to show I'm the bigger man, I'll show him the courtesy he's NEVER shown me and rebut his ass but good.

"Why is Nick Diaz in my Top 10?"  Same reason he's in many others' Top 10.  He not long ago asked Dana White to find him a fight.  That shows 'his retirement' is not to be taken seriously.  

http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/7/7/4500444/dana-white-on-nick-diaz-he-wants-to-fight

Why is Jake Shields in my Top 10?  He fights at MW?

Jake beat Woodley at WW on June 15, via SD, and is presently scheduled to fight Demian Maia October 9, 2013 at UFC Fight Night 29.  That rebuts your opinion that Jake is a MW.  And fighting Maia, who is ranked #5 is natural only if you are ranked Top 10.  Saffiedine only has one win of note against Marquadt and shouldn't be Top 15.  Until he further certifies his status against the big boys.

Mike Pierce is also too daring.  He's good and fighting his way up but should still be #11-15, until further notice.  So, your Top 10 has 3 that are only borderline.  You might have been better-served to let my Form Chart guide you.  Kim, Shields & Diaz would have been stronger nominees.  Possibly Woodley.

Stop picking on buffalo ben.

* Edited at 08.31.2013, 12:16 PM ET *

@Lopat  Stop putting boogers into Kalibo's sandwiches.  That's not nice.  

@Franklin  Traitor.

@Master Spanky  Stay with me, my friend.  I need you.

@buffalo ben  Good sleuth work.  Anyone who gets the goods on BJ is a hero of mine!  You score style points!

@house  Check out Tarec Saffiedine's record.  He's not truly Top 10, yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarec_Saffiedine

We don't have any way of knowing where to rank Ben Askren.  He might be up there but how can we rank him Top 10 knowing the quality of his competition is so suspect?  He only got a split decision against Jay Heiron and Hieron isn't Top 30 in anyone's book.

* Edited at 08.31.2013, 12:18 PM ET *

Pay no attention to any critic who doesn't post their own rankings Bill. You have to be willing to build your own glass house before throwing rocks at someone else's.

Through this entire melee of the last few pages...I just wanna say that GIF Jitz posted was totally uncalled for and inappropriate. 

Jake beat Woodley at WW on June 15, via SD, and is presently scheduled to fight Demian Maia October 9, 2013 at UFC Fight Night 29.  That rebuts your opinion that Jake is a MW.  And fighting Maia, who is ranked #5 is natural only if you are ranked Top 10.  Saffiedine only has one win of note against Marquadt and shouldn't be Top 15.  Until he further certifies his status against the big boys.

- Bil, if you carefully glance at the mirage of my posts, I clearly corrected myself in stating Shields fights at WW; I know that. However, despite the fact Shields does have some wins in W.W, they do not offset his losses to GSP, Ellenberger. Shields split over Kampmann does not justify any position in the top 10. His win against Herman was at MW, and his Akiyama is no where near the top 10. Woodley fight was also a lackluster performance. The top 10 is solely win based credentials, but you have to factor in performance related performances and use your judegment.

Mike Pierce is also too daring.  He's good and fighting his way up but should still be #11-15, until further notice.  So, your Top 10 has 3 that are only borderline.  You might have been better-served to let my Form Chart guide you.  Kim, Shields & Diaz would have been stronger nominees.  Possibly Woodley.



- Only the people who have been watching the prelims for years would understand why Pierce deserves to be in the top 10. He beats everybody, and has two arguable, SD losses to Hendricks and Koscheck. Pierce is also on a 4 fight win streak, with 2 knockouts thrown in there. A wrestler with power prove to be dominant.

* Edited at 08.31.2013, 11:50 AM ET *

Enjoy college football today. Oh yea, there are some fights today too. I'm going to find a beautiful /Asian /Avatar this weekend.

I support Bill Burgess 100%.

* Edited at 08.31.2013, 11:53 AM ET *

@Wolf Here you go, one that's more your speed...

Mmmm. Gum Job. :D

@BJ  Your analysis, while better than your usual troll job sniping, still is shallow with respect to Jake Shields.

He arrived here with a lot of fanfare and hoopla.  I dismiss all that.  His great record as Strikeforce MW champion was fantastic, but still, I am not using that now.  

His Strikeforce MW wins over Paul Daley, Robbie Lawler, Mayham Miller and Dan Henderson were amazing.  But they happened from 2008 to 2010.  

His SD win over Kampmann was his UFC debut but was 3 years ago.  He lost his title shot to GSP but so what.  Everyone loses to GSP.  No disgrace in that.  And Jake handled himself better than most did against GSP!  Much better!  That was in April, 2011, still 2.5 years ago.

He lost to Ellenberger in September, 2011.  Two years ago.  Since then, he's done nothing but win.  His MW UD win against Ed Herman was overturned and turned into a NC. Failed drug test.  He was fined and suspended.  So, that leaves us with 2 wins since February 2012.  

I think you're selling him short.  He may be a soft Top 10, but his credentials are still good.  Better than Saffiedine.  I'm a big Pierce fan but he's still certifying himself.

Well, Bill, you're using a quantitative means of measuring a fighters ranking, when you should be using a qualitative for (it's not just about wins - if it was, Askren would clearly be higher.). For me, Shields doesn't beat anyone in my top 10 (besides Brown).

* Edited at 08.31.2013, 12:52 PM ET *

So you both have different opinions. Big surprise. And guess what. Neither of you is wrong because they're opinions.

Can't believe nobody's tried to snipe at my perhaps premature ranking of Silva. 

* Edited at 08.31.2013, 1:24 PM ET *

That's why debate, Mulefloyd.

But you do realize it's possible to state your opinion without stating or insinuating that the other person's opinion is wrong.

No matter how you cut it, Shields is more deserving of a Top 10 ranking than Saffiedine.  For real.

Shields defeat of Woodley trumps Saffiedine's defeat of Marquardt.  Marquardt is off-form of late and for some inexplicable reason, refused to check leg kicks against Saffiedine.  

What possible justification can anyone have for ranking Tarec over Jake?  I just don't see it.  (Because it isn't there.)