"CYBORG"

"CYBORG" any one who thinks any one on this list is better than "CYBORG" is crazy this is not a beauty contest ! "CYBORG" would knock out all of the ones on this list ! 

Yeah Ronda wins all of her fights entirely due to the fact that the level of her opponents is lacking. It has nothing to do with the fact that she is a black belt in Judo ranked on the same level as Hector Lombard, Stun Gun and even ranked higher than Akiyama. 

Her being a one trick pony says nothing. She's a one trick pony because right now she can afford to be. 

Why test your stand up in the UFC when you have the trump card that no one can even come close to dealing with? She's keeping women's MMA alive in the UFC so every woman should thank her after she snaps their arm because without her doing so they would all be in Invicta. 

Once the level rises that she has to adapt and adapt quickly then she will do so. If she can get to a level of Judo where she can toss men and tap them then she can most definitely add striking to her game but for now it isn't broken so why fix it?

Unconvincing, Jaff.  Your argument needs a foundation, but you have none.

You claim that Ronda Rousey is keeping woman's MMA alive in the UFC?  Whatever Rousey is doing is by the grace of her benefactor, Dana White.  Dana designated her as his girl, to carry his flag.

Dana White had other, better options but he passed on them.  White could have been patient and waited for Chris Cyborg's suspension to end on December 17, 2012, and then created the first woman's weight division in the UFC at 145, and told all the 135 girls, move to 145 if you want to fight in the UFC. 

You really think they would have said, "No".  If you really think that, you are nuts.

Dana Whtie had the option of creating a woman's division based on Chris Cyborg being the superstar.  

But he didn't want to do that.  He believed that he could sell Ronda Rousey easier to people.  And guess what?  White was wrong.  Cyborg would have been the easier sell.  She had the fighting credentials, she had the record, she had the name already.

But White is the King-Maker.  He appoints people to superstar status.  Rousey didn't create herself.  She was nothing until King-Maker butted in, and designated her to replace the greatest woman's MMA fighter on the planet.  White did that all by himself.  Rousey was just another garden-variety, good MMA fighter.  

White chose a 1-trick poney to be his 'girl', and he's been over-promoting her, despite her limitations ever since.

If White had decided on Cyborg, Cyborg would be the big cheese today.  I have a feeling I know why White did what he did but I can't prove it without evidence.

I suspect White offered Cyborg a deal, but she hung tough and wanted more money.  She probably was too tough a negotiator and White decided that Rousey would take whatever he offered her, which, of course, she did.

I also suspect that when Cyborg offered to come down to 140 and fight Rousey, Cyborg wanted more money than Rousey, because she was bringing more name recognition to the table and White didn't want to pay her what she wanted.

Those are probably close to the truth, but as I said, they don't tell us fans nothing for a reason.  Cyborg doesn't want to sound greedy, and White doesn't want to sound as insanely asinine as he is.

* Edited at 05.19.2013, 3:06 PM ET *

Your argument loses all credibility when you say Ronda was nothing before Dana brought here to the UFC.
Don't be mad at White for being a promoter and certainly don't be mad at Rousey for winning every fight she has had by armbar - if it was that easy and purely down to the level of opponent more people would be doing it.

Bill Burgess' posts may be long, extensive and eloquently written but make no mistake; his arguments are idiotic, bogus, filled with fallacies and ridiculously biased. He is not an intelligent person, he is only an idiot that can write.

Burgess' argument solely relies on assumptions; he assumes that Dana White is the sole reason why Ronda Rousey is anything, he assumes Cyborg would be more marketable and he makes the mistake of believing that Cyborg is a big name when in reality, she doesn't have a name.

The reason why Bill Burgess' argument is so flawed is because he doesn't go outside enough (yes I'm serious). It is because of your lack of social interaction with other sports fans that you assume things that are wholeheartedly false.

There is no point in arguing with Bill Burgess because he is way more different than any of us. He is literally ignorant to what people know, like and believe. If Bill had enough power to set his ideas into motion, MMA would be ruined forever.

Rousey made herself by dominating everyone she fought by first round armbar and by having a big personality that makes headlines.

If you are her biggest fan you should know its Cris, Not Chris.

Oh I have another thing to pick at; "Cyborg would have been the easier sell.  She had the fighting credentials, she had the record, she had the name already."


Cyborg was 10-1 (I believe) fighting in small promotions and Strikeforce (which to me is still small). Ronda Rousey was 5-0 (or something) and she was fighting in the same promotions, but she was undefeated and that always holds a stigma.


The biggest fights Cyborg had were seen by like 250,000 people and that was because of Gina Carano. I believe 400,000+ watched Ronda Rousey rip Miesha Tate's arm off with an armbar.


As for name value, that is pure utter ********. Ronda Rousey was an Olympic medalist, that in itself makes her the much bigger name.


Bill Burgess once again strikes out. There is no cure for stupidity my friends.

@bill please stick to your welterweights you sound like a casual fan, you know nothing about this it seems. Let's go thru this step by step.

"Dana White had other, better options but he passed on them.  White could have been patient and waited for Chris Cyborg's suspension to end on December 17, 2012, and then created the first woman's weight division in the UFC at 145, and told all the 135 girls, move to 145 if you want to fight in the UFC. "

Wrong! Ronda was already a star, drawing the best Showtime ratings with the Rousey vs Tate fight, since Fedor fought there. Cyborg at that time had headlined as well and her numbers weren't as good. She was also suspended for roids at the time and the 145 womens division is not really where the action is, in fact the division is quiet shallow.

"Dana Whtie had the option of creating a woman's division based on Chris Cyborg being the superstar. But he didn't want to do that.  He believed that he could sell Ronda Rousey easier to people.  And guess what? White was wrong."

Wrong! Like I said she's ugly, can't speak english very good fights way longer than Ronda yet never reached the status even before the UFC opend up the gates for the women.

"Cyborg would have been the easier sell.  She had the fighting credentials, she had the record, she had the name already."

Wrong! Fight credentials like an olympian Judoka? Besides who had the Strikeforce belt? Yeah that was Ronda! Cyborg got striped of hers.


"But White is the King-Maker.  He appoints people to superstar status.  Rousey didn't create herself.  She was nothing until King-Maker butted in, and designated her to replace the greatest woman's MMA fighter on the planet.  White did that all by himself.  Rousey was just another garden-variety, good MMA fighter.  "

Wrong! Rousey made a name for herself calling out Miesh Tate, before that she made a name for herself armbaring anybody while transitiong to the sport with a bronze medal in the Olympics.

"White chose a 1-trick poney to be his 'girl', and he's been over-promoting her, despite her limitations ever since."

Wrong! UFC 157 did really well, selling half a million PPV. Nothing was over-promoted.

"If White had decided on Cyborg, Cyborg would be the big cheese today.  I have a feeling I know why White did what he did but I can't prove it without evidence."

Wrong! Oh so ******* wrong.

"I suspect White offered Cyborg a deal, but she hung tough and wanted more money.  She probably was too tough a negotiator and White decided that Rousey would take whatever he offered her, which, of course, she did."

Wrong! It started with weight issues, Tito did a whole presser about it putting Cyborg on a scale on live TV. Seems like you missed that as well.

"Those are probably close to the truth, but as I said, they don't tell us fans nothing for a reason.  Cyborg doesn't want to sound greedy, and White doesn't want to sound as insanely asinine as he is. "

Wrong! To call that close to the truth is funny though, Bill your post is a disaster. EVERYTHING you said is wrong, wrong wrong. And it's not like I'm making this up the facts are out there.

Seriously Bill what a horrible, clueless, ignorant post.

Darn Anik the GOAT already on the case...


BTW I bet that one up thumb on Bill's post is from MikelovestacosXD...

All I have to say about this thread


pwnt.jpeg

Eh, Bill....

Exhibit 1a:


Exhibit 1b:


Exhibit 2a:


Exhibit 2b:




I rest my case.

Responding to that post would be the internet version of hitting your head on a coffee table whilst simultaneously accidentally roofie-ing yourself. The **** is just too dumb......

Ronda is attractive, intelligent and an absolute killer. She was all of that before the UFC.

Cyborg looks like Carrot Top dressed as Lindsay Lohan on meth.. 

Which one is more marketable?

"Responding to that post would be the internet version of hitting your head on a coffee table whilst simultaneously accidentally roofie-ing yourself."

Why thank you...

Ha ha ha.  Feels so good.  Not just willing to disagree and leave it at that, but to make it personal and ugly.

Very well, gentlemen.  I feel entirely comfortable fighting with my back to the river and the enemy swarming.  

@Anik Your post was without a point.  Entirely insulting and personal.  Your claim Cyborg has no name value.  Any need to respond to such drivel?

@MadMike  The fact that I don't even know how to spell her name proves I am not even a huge Cyborg fan.
Which means I am not prejudiced in her favor.

@AnikM again. Name value?  AnikM believes being an Olympic judo fighter gives you a big name. Once again, his point has no point.  The Olympics judo matches do not give name value.  I challenge you to name all the Olympic judo fighters you know.  If you know less than 5, you make MY point.

@dielegende Ronda was already a star?  I think you forget what a star really is.  Rousey's fights in Strikeforce made her a small name only in the most limited MMA hardcore circles.  There was a reason Strikeforce went out of business.  They couldn't attract enough viewers to stay afloat.  Rousey fighting with Tate was not enough to give her a name.  

You say the Strikeforce 145 women's division was shallow.  Could it be that the other natural 145 women (like Rousey) were dropping to 135 to avoid Cyborg???  Because that is exactly what happened.

Cyborg held the Strikeforce 145 belt but was stripped of it when she tested positive for steroids.  Yeah, that was a black mark against her, and everyone here is milking that factor to death to deny her her dues.

@joe Kerr  You show photos of Cyborg and Rousey.  

With respect to the second Cyborg photo, where in hell can she lose 10 more lbs.?  She's so ripped and cut that she has nowhere left to find excess lbs.

You show photos of Rousey.  I personally do not find her that exceptionally pretty.  Oh, I'm not calling her unattractive, just ordinary to me.  With respect to the other UFC women, Tate and Cat are as pretty.  But face power should not be what anything is based on.  Fighting talent should be.

When I claim that Rousey was nothing before White came along to push her, I meant that she was no big shakes, no big deal.  She dropped to 135 to avoid losing to Cyborg, won a belt, and White suddenly goes ape-****, saying how amazing she was???

What was White reacting to?  He had spent the last 5 years poo-pooing women's MMA, saying the UFC wasn't interested, that fans didn't want to see women fighting each other, there weren't enough women to form a UFC component, etc.

Suddenly, he sees Rousey and starts to sound like a smitten teenager, gushing how she is the Second Coming of MMA, and 'This is the Ronda Rousey show.'  

Rousey was just another garden-variety woman's fighter who won a belt from among 10 other women.  It wasn't like she won from a normal UFC division of 40 fighters, each highly competitive and clawing to get to the top.

* Edited at 05.19.2013, 11:09 PM ET *

I may be wrong, but Anik's last 2 posts might have been his very first on tapology that failed to have a F-bomb.

Neither one had a single cuss word, swear, curse or potty word.  

Excellent!  And his power was amplified several times over.  His point that I am a fool not worth listening to or reading was made with crystal clear expressions and undiluted.  

I feel vindicated.  Keep it up, Anik!  I feel disrespected, demeaned, belittled, discredited and insulted in a perfectly appropriate, acceptable way.  Now that is the way to crap all over me and kick me in the nuts!   

Let's all hope that his insults and taunts remain on point and above bad language.

* Edited at 05.19.2013, 6:59 PM ET *

@ dielegende23 - "Wrong! Ronda was already a star, drawing the best Showtime ratings with the Rousey vs Tate fight, since Fedor fought there. Cyborg at that time had headlined as well and her numbers weren't as good. She was also suspended for roids at the time and the 145 womens division is not really where the action is, in fact the division is quiet shallow."

I agree with that. The 145 division was weak because Cyborg had pretty much cleaned that division out. Gina Carano was MIA, Marloes Coenen after losing went to 135, and Jan Finney isn't a top 145 female fighter by anyone's standards. When Strikeforce first brought in Ronda Rousey, they were trying to find someone who was willing to fight Cyborg at 145, and at that time Rousey was fighting at 145. Rousey fights two fights at 145 in Strikeforce, and drops to 135 to challenge Tate for the 135 title. Cyborg gets popped for steroids after the Yamanaka fight, and Rousey goes to 135. Of course 145 was weak, but mostly because Cyborg basically cleaned house. However, I do agree about the ratings though. Rousey had the higher ratings for her fights than Cyborg did. I can't argue against that.

"Wrong! Like I said she's ugly, can't speak english very good fights way longer than Ronda yet never reached the status even before the UFC opend up the gates for the women."

Cyborg may be ugly and can't speak English very good, but look at Renan Barao, GSP, and Anderson Silva. None of them are good looking and they can't speak English very well either. This is MMA. It's about fighting. It's not a beauty contest or an elocution contest. Cyborg was the women's Champion in Strikeforce and made her name defeating Gina Carano in 2009. Rousey wasn't even heard of until 2012, but there is no argument that Rousey is more marketable because of her looks and physique. Also Rousey did have a meteoric rise in MMA after she defeated Meisha Tate.

"Wrong! Fight credentials like an olympian Judoka? Besides who had the Strikeforce belt? Yeah that was Ronda! Cyborg got striped of hers."

I can't argue with this one at all. Rousey does bring legit mixed martial arts credentials to the table, and she is a decorated mixed martial artist. Also Rousey was still the champion, and Cyborg did get stripped of her belt when Strikeforce folded.

"Wrong! Rousey made a name for herself calling out Miesh Tate, before that she made a name for herself armbaring anybody while transitiong to the sport with a bronze medal in the Olympics."

This is a matter of opinion or perception here. If someone is a big Olympics fan and watch all the events in the Olympics then yeah, Rousey would probably be a household name to said person, but if someone doesn't watch the Olympics or basically any sports in the amateur competitions such as myself, then you're not going to know who anybody is until they fight professionally and get exposure from said professional media. Until Rousey defeated Julia Budd, I didn't even know who she was, but I knew who Cyborg was long before the Rousey/Budd fight. I don't remember Rousey calling out Tate, so I'll take your word on that, but where I really started taking notice of Rousey was when she called out Cyborg after she beat Meisha Tate.

"Wrong! UFC 157 did really well, selling half a million PPV. Nothing was over-promoted."

You're absolutely right about the half million PPV buys, but you can't give all the credit to Rousey/Carmouche being the main event as the reason this PPV did so well, there was also Hendo/Machida and Urijah Faber was on the card as well. However, once the fights happened, Hendo/Machida didn't do a damn thing to impress, but the Rousey/Carmouche fight was very entertaining. Having Dan Henderson and Urijah Faber on the card helped to sell this PPV.

Bill Burgess writes - "If White had decided on Cyborg, Cyborg would be the big cheese today.  I have a feeling I know why White did what he did but I can't prove it without evidence."

dielegende23 responds - "Wrong! Oh so ******* wrong."

I have to disagree with you dielegende23. Rousey has done a good job of marketing herself, and she is a skilled MMA fighter, but it doesn't hurt that she has Dana White in her corner. Usually whoever Dana White markets as the p4p best, that's pretty much what most people buy. It's nothing bad against Dana White or Rousey, it's just the truth.

"Wrong! It started with weight issues, Tito did a whole presser about it putting Cyborg on a scale on live TV. Seems like you missed that as well."

You're right, it did start with weight issues, but the Tito presser wasn't done until after the UFC deal fell through. In fact, someone pointed out to me and had me google an article with Mike Dolce who said that he could get Cyborg to make weight for the Rousey fight to happen. What the actual problem was, was the contractual issues. Cyborg wanted to fight at 145, Dana said no, so then enter Dolce who could get Cyborg to 135, so UFC wants Cyborg to fight at 135 for 10 fights. Cyborg responds with 3 fights at 135, and then she goes back to fighting at 145 for the remainder of her contract because that is the weight she feels more comfortable fighting at. UFC said no. Cyborg asks for a 3-fight deal. UFC says no, then there was also money issues to boot, so Cyborg asked for immediate release. After reading that article, I still don't get the whole presser after all of that. Truth is, Cyborg didn't want to be locked into a long-term contract fighting at a weight that she doesn't normally fight at. That would be like asking a big 185er to fight a long term contract at 170. To sum it up. Cyborg wanted too much money, and the UFC wanted too long term of a contract at a weight that Cyborg doesn't fight at.

"Wrong! To call that close to the truth is funny though, Bill your post is a disaster. EVERYTHING you said is wrong, wrong wrong. And it's not like I'm making this up the facts are out there.

Seriously Bill what a horrible, clueless, ignorant post."

A simple, I disagree would've gotten the point across.

So there, die!  Jaykool just put you in your place.

But jaykool was kind to you.  He could have kicked your ass all over the place.  I guess he wanted to let me have that honor.  

Rousey was just another rather anomalous, Strikeforce fighter, albeit a belt holder, before Dana White decided to step in and change her destiny.

White decided to bring her into the UFC as the first UFC woman fighter.  The very first.  And White made it a big deal.  He invested in her.  He decided to make her a big deal.  White decided to change her destiny.  He put on his P.T. Barnum hat and served as her impresario.  

If White hadn't decided to bring her into the UFC, she would have remained another, anomalous woman fighter.  That's not my opinion, it's a cold, hard fact.

White made her.  He took a garden-variety belt holder, and launched her into superstar status.  He annointed her, he appointed her, he designated her as 'his girl'.  

And then he followed up by promoting the first woman's fight in the UFC.  Only the UFC had the marketing muscle to do that.  He put her on the map.

And if you disagree with the above, or can't see the cold, hard facts, that proves you are not qualified to debate this subject with me.

It was White and White alone who decided to bring Rousey to the UFC and then to bring in more women to form the first UFC women's division.

He just as easily have decided to do the same things with Cyborg, but he did what he did.  It is what it is.

If White had not decided to bring women into the UFC, Rousey would still be an anomalous woman and Cyborg would still have the bigger name.  White and White alone gave Rousey the bigger name, but that is only possible to do with the uneducated.  Lots of uneducated here.

In fact, if White hadn't decided to intervene on her behalf and bring her into the UFC, she and all the other Strikeforce women would today be scattered to the winds of smaller MMA promotions, and languishing in obscurity, trying to stay relevant and employed.

White made the difference for Rousey.  

* Edited at 05.19.2013, 11:14 PM ET *

After every post Jay makes Bill is just like

OUTSTANDING, AMAZING POST, A TRUE WORK OF ART, SIMPLY THE BEST

@jaykool

"Cyborg may be ugly and can't speak English very good, but look at Renan Barao, GSP, and Anderson Silva. None of them are good looking and they can't speak English very well either. It's about fighting. It's not a beauty contest or an elocution contest."


That point doesn't make any sense? This is a male dominated sport so unless you're gay then who would actually care if a male fighter is good looking or not? It shouldn't be the way it is but men are going to root for the hot chick. Also look at fighters who know their way around a mic vs those who can't even speak English. Chael has just talked himself into a fight vs Wanderlei whereas a devastating champion like Jose Aldo has yet to breakthrough to the masses.


@Bill


"If White hadn't decided to bring her into the UFC, she would have remained another, anomalous woman fighter.  That's not my opinion, it's a cold, hard fact."


"And if you disagree with the above, or can't see the cold, hard facts, that proves you are not qualified to debate this subject with me."


Oh Bill...... How precisely is you speculating on something that didn't happen a "cold hard fact"? You're coming off as a real dumb dumb right now and your horrendously biased posts are making it even worse. Talk up Cyborg all you want but saying that Olympic medalist Ronda Rousey with 6 first round armbars was just randomly chosen by Dana is just pure ignorance. She talked the talk and then more than walked the walk which is money. Cyborg can barely talk the talk and can't walk the walk without a big helping of Stanozolol right to the jugular.


You should brush up on how cold and how solid these "cold hard facts" of yours really are.

@ jaffacakehero - "That point doesn't make any sense? This is a male dominated sport so unless you're gay then who would actually care if a male fighter is good looking or not? It shouldn't be the way it is but men are going to root for the hot chick. Also look at fighters who know their way around a mic vs those who can't even speak English. Chael has just talked himself into a fight vs Wanderlei whereas a devastating champion like Jose Aldo has yet to breakthrough to the masses."

There are many women that watch MMA, and I don't hear any of them judging a male fighter's skillset or stature in MMA based on how well they speak or how good they look, but you're right. This is a male dominated sport, and a fighter's credentials (male or female) should not be based on looks or elocution, but it is what it is. Your also right about Chael Sonnen. He did talk himself into two title fights, and Jose Aldo does have yet to breakthrough to the masses. Also Nick Diaz talked himself into a title fight with GSP, so I can't argue with that logic.

"Cyborg can barely talk the talk and can't walk the walk without a big helping of Stanozolol right to the jugular."

Here you are praising Chael Sonnen for talking himself into two title fights, and yet he's been popped for steroid use as well. It's kind of hypocritical to down Cyborg for steroid use, but praise Sonnen who did the same thing.

Because of your post on this subject it has brought something else to mind. Chael Sonnen did earn both shots against Anderson Silva, but he was popped for steroids after the first fight. So it didn't even make a difference that Sonnen was on roids. He still lost to Anderson. When Anderson didn't want to give Sonnen a second shot at the title because of the failed post-fight drug test, Silva was called a coward, but here is Rousey saying that she won't fight Cyborg because she's on roids, and Rousey is not only not a coward, but she is hailed as the best WMMA fighter of all time? Huge hypocrisy right there. 

Steroids don't create skill and technique. Neither does weight. Kenny Florian dropped to 145 because he couldn't win at 155, and he still lost to Jose Aldo and barely beat Diego Nunes. BJ Penn fought GSP at 170, he didn't call out GSP, and then tell him to drop to 155.