Topic: Top Featherweights - 145 lbs.
Early 2011 FW Rankings: What Say You?
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01.26.2011 | 12:09 PM ET
I am having a really tough time justifying my current rankings list, even to myself. Mark Hominick has looked great lately, but he still has a semi-recent loss to Josh Grispi. Grispi, for his part, just lost to the previously unranked Dustin Poirier. Additionally, the previously low-ranked Diego Nunes took out Mike Brown, who I had at No. 3, and then Brown went ahead and lost to Rani Yahya. To top it off, Manny Gamburyan hasn't been active at all in the division, and his only impressive win is over Brown, who is obviously slipping lately. Overall, I'm starting to believe guys like Hioki and Mendes are true top three featherweights, but they haven't proved it to me yet.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
"When a game cannot be won, change the game."
Responses
01.26.2011 | 12:17 PM ET
That division is incredibly frothy right now.
But to begin the conversation, I don't think Mike Brown can be kept in the top ten. He had some great moments in the WEC but he's lost 4 of his last 6 including two straight. In fact, I was watching the news after his last fight to see if he'd be cut, but as one of the higher-profile guys at 145 they seem to have kept him on. I think I've ranked him down around 17 or so.
The problem after that is you have young guys who are streaking but have significant losses dotting their earlier records. Mendes is unproven but I think he's great. Poirier and Hominick have to be up there, as does Grispi despite the loss. It's kind of a mess right now.
But to begin the conversation, I don't think Mike Brown can be kept in the top ten. He had some great moments in the WEC but he's lost 4 of his last 6 including two straight. In fact, I was watching the news after his last fight to see if he'd be cut, but as one of the higher-profile guys at 145 they seem to have kept him on. I think I've ranked him down around 17 or so.
The problem after that is you have young guys who are streaking but have significant losses dotting their earlier records. Mendes is unproven but I think he's great. Poirier and Hominick have to be up there, as does Grispi despite the loss. It's kind of a mess right now.
"Damn right I like the life I live / Cause I went from negative to positive."
01.26.2011 | 12:23 PM ET
Yeah 145 and also 135 are really hard to figure out right now.
Aldo is obvious, beyond that you could argue anything. Omigawa has perhaps looked the most consistently impressive over good competition in the past 2 years. Whereas Mendes, undefeated but against slightly lesser opposition, has got a style that's just so difficult to deal with. Mendes might be the more legitimate threat to Aldo than Omigawa because of his ability to get opponents onto their backs. It's so awesome that they are fighting next week to figure out this part of the puzzle.
Hominick I've got at 4 because he's next in line and is hot right now. I just don't know if he's big and strong enough. Similar concern with Hioki. But the fact is that they've each been winning a lot of fights.
Maybe Nunes, Poirier will both be ranked above Hominick/Hioki before long. But I want to see more than just 1 breakout fight.
Aldo is obvious, beyond that you could argue anything. Omigawa has perhaps looked the most consistently impressive over good competition in the past 2 years. Whereas Mendes, undefeated but against slightly lesser opposition, has got a style that's just so difficult to deal with. Mendes might be the more legitimate threat to Aldo than Omigawa because of his ability to get opponents onto their backs. It's so awesome that they are fighting next week to figure out this part of the puzzle.
Hominick I've got at 4 because he's next in line and is hot right now. I just don't know if he's big and strong enough. Similar concern with Hioki. But the fact is that they've each been winning a lot of fights.
Maybe Nunes, Poirier will both be ranked above Hominick/Hioki before long. But I want to see more than just 1 breakout fight.
"I live, I die, I live again."
01.26.2011 | 12:26 PM ET
I'm in the same boat. Who definitely deserves to be on the list except for Aldo? Confusing the issue is the higher-than-usual number of potentially top guys that aren't fighting in the UFC. I think 7 is high for Yahya after his first fight at 145 in three and a half years, and I agree that Mike Brown can't be considered a top-10 fighter any more. He's still cashing in on his wins over Faber.
"Any rational society would either kill me or put me to some use."
01.26.2011 | 12:28 PM ET
i think i need to slot omigawa in there. i've overlooked him.
"Damn right I like the life I live / Cause I went from negative to positive."
01.26.2011 | 12:30 PM ET
Not sure when yours is last updated Jeremy, but Fernandes and Sandro both just lost on NYE so in my book their opponents Takaya and Hioki need to be above them, respectively. Still lots of room for interpretation beyond that.
"I live, I die, I live again."
01.26.2011 | 12:42 PM ET
yup, just added a few names. that ranking of mine was pretty stale with the exception of shuffling around the UFC/WEC guys after the last event.
Cub Swanson's another name that impressed me recently. Maybe not top ten but approaching it. Losses to Aldo and Mendes don't damage his reputation much in my opinion. Beat Takaya pretty recently. Consensus has him at 16, i put him at 14.
Cub Swanson's another name that impressed me recently. Maybe not top ten but approaching it. Losses to Aldo and Mendes don't damage his reputation much in my opinion. Beat Takaya pretty recently. Consensus has him at 16, i put him at 14.
"Damn right I like the life I live / Cause I went from negative to positive."
01.26.2011 | 1:45 PM ET
I need to completely revamp my rankings. Very tough decisions to make.
"When a game cannot be won, change the game."
01.26.2011 | 1:54 PM ET
Really Joachim Hansen at 10 that's insane. The guy hasn't been able to string more than 2 wins together in the last 5 years. Is 2-3 in his last 5 and has really only 1 win at 145. I know Yahya is in a similar situation fighting a lot in other weight classes but Yahya's 145 wins are Mark Hominick and Mike Thomas Brown, Hansen's is Sami Aziz.
"It does not make sense that humans deliberately malfunction. - Upgrade"
01.26.2011 | 2:18 PM ET
Surprised you don't have Chad Mendes top 10, bigJ. I guess UFC 126 will be the moment of truth.
"I live, I die, I live again."
01.26.2011 | 2:32 PM ET
@Skelliher the biggest problem I would see is that Hioki is too low and Hominick is too high. Hominick has beat some solid people but none of which are really top 10. I know he is listed as the #1 contender right now but that is marketing more than anything. When you look at top 10 he has faced Grispi, Hioki, Yahya, he's lost to all of them, though it is old enough it's starting to fade. Now considering Roop, Jabouin, and Garcia are stylistically favorable match ups for Hominick and none should of been any higher than top 15, he hasn't really faced the top competition to garner the #2 spot. He has a good style to face Aldo and if he manages to upset him then we will see that type of ranking deserved but of course in the #1 spot. Throughout his career Hominick is a lot like Paul Daley in that his success has been very dependent on stylistically favorable match ups.
"It does not make sense that humans deliberately malfunction. - Upgrade"
01.26.2011 | 2:34 PM ET
@Gregory, I did have Mendes there for a bit but he got pushed out with Nunes, Poier and Yahya entering with big wins. I think I have him at 12 right now and his fight with Omigawa will be one that will make him in the division.
"It does not make sense that humans deliberately malfunction. - Upgrade"
01.26.2011 | 3:20 PM ET
@Bigj Good points and I'm definitely going to shuffle my rankings again. I don't have Hominick at the No. 2 spot because of the UFC's marketing machine, more because of the decline of several prominent top ten FWs, such as Brown, Grispi, and the inclusion of new FWs such as Nunes and Poirier, neither of which I will place above Hominick yet. You have Gamburyan at No. 2, based solely on the fact that he beat Brown, a fighter who many believe has fallen out of the top ten.
Overall, I don't think it's a problem with the rankings logic of most people on this forum, but rather a reality of the division. I think it is weaker than most divisions right now and needs time--maybe two years--to build a semi-solid consensus top ten ranking.
Overall, I don't think it's a problem with the rankings logic of most people on this forum, but rather a reality of the division. I think it is weaker than most divisions right now and needs time--maybe two years--to build a semi-solid consensus top ten ranking.
"When a game cannot be won, change the game."
01.26.2011 | 4:31 PM ET
For Gamburyan I am a big believer in the order in which someone loses matters. When Gamburyan beat Brown he was 23-5 with his only recent loss to Aldo, and two fairly recent wins over Faber. When Nunes beat him he beat a guy who was now 24-6, and for Yahya it was a guy who was 24-7. Losing and winning are habits and they take a mental and physical tole on someone I can't expect someone to be the same fighter after every loss. The name is less important to me than the record they have when they face them. For example beating Fedor was infinitely more valuable just 1 year ago than it is now. Just like if JDS beats brock it's not as impressive as when Cain beat him.
Like beating Brown now wouldn't even get you in the top 10, but I won't devalue the win of beating beating Brown when Aldo or Gamburyan beat him. When Aldo beat him Brown was #1 which made Aldo #1, when Gamburyan beat him Brown was #2 which pushed Gamburyan to #2 and anything Brown has done since doesn't change that. The Fact that Gamburyan lost to Aldo doesn't change much for Gamburyan. Aldo can maintain as long as he keeps winning and fighting good competition.
Like beating Brown now wouldn't even get you in the top 10, but I won't devalue the win of beating beating Brown when Aldo or Gamburyan beat him. When Aldo beat him Brown was #1 which made Aldo #1, when Gamburyan beat him Brown was #2 which pushed Gamburyan to #2 and anything Brown has done since doesn't change that. The Fact that Gamburyan lost to Aldo doesn't change much for Gamburyan. Aldo can maintain as long as he keeps winning and fighting good competition.
"It does not make sense that humans deliberately malfunction. - Upgrade"
01.26.2011 | 7:08 PM ET
The Featherweight division is nuts. Great fighters keep losing to people we haven't heard of. I think some of the UFC's lightweights will drop to 145, which will solidify the division a bit I think. This is one of the few divisions where the UFC doesn't dominate the top 20, I think Hioki and Sandro, for example, are both great fighters who belong high in the top 10. Hioki is one of the few people who would pose a big threat to Aldo.
"We Are All One"
02.01.2011 | 10:38 AM ET
Finally bit the bullet and completely revamped my FW rankings. I'm pretty happy with the results, though I will admit this top ten list is more shaky than any of my others. I expect a lot of shifts to occur in 2011.
"When a game cannot be won, change the game."
02.02.2011 | 10:59 AM ET
A lot of you people have Poirier WAY too high. He has one win at FW and it was against a 22 year old kid who was fighting a totally different opponent than he expected on very short notice. Lets see something else before we even consider him top 10, let alone top 5. My list took me some time to make, but I think it is pretty accurate. FW is a very hard division to rank.
"It's not about whether you win or lose... Well, unless your the guy who lost."
02.02.2011 | 11:14 AM ET
@thebestevah ... That 22-year old kid holds a recent first-round win over your No. 7...
"When a game cannot be won, change the game."
02.02.2011 | 11:19 AM ET
Why do you have Omigawa over Hioki? I'm guessing you didn't see their fight, you just saw it on paper, because I though Hioki clearly beat Omigawa in that fight, despite Omigawa getting the W.
"As long as you can say that you learned something by the end of a roll, then it was a good roll"
02.02.2011 | 11:37 AM ET
@robdabob you can make that argument - they are your rankings. But it's a slippery slope of injecting your own opinion of how the fight should have been scored.
Did Hioki deserve to beat Omigawa? Did Machida deserve to beat Rampage? It could go on and on, and then nobody is even talking about the same thing. It's just a lot easier to use official wins and losses.
Did Hioki deserve to beat Omigawa? Did Machida deserve to beat Rampage? It could go on and on, and then nobody is even talking about the same thing. It's just a lot easier to use official wins and losses.
"I live, I die, I live again."
02.02.2011 | 11:41 AM ET
Ya, you're right, all lists are based on opinion =).
"As long as you can say that you learned something by the end of a roll, then it was a good roll"