Your WW Rankings

The WW division is my favorite.  It's the deepest Shark Tank in MMA. GSP is my favorite fighter now that Randy Couture has retired.  Diego Sanchez is my 2nd favorite.    

The Top Tier is amazing:  GSP, Fitch, Penn, Shields.  And the rising stars are the most promising of any division: Condit, MacDonald, Ellenberger, Kampmann, Hathaway, Kim, Story, Sadollah, Brenneman, Hendricks, Ebersole. How do you rank them?  

If Diego legitimately beats Ellenberger he'll definitely be top 10 imo.

Now that you mention it, Diego vs Story sounds like an awesome fight Bill. Seems extremely evenly matched, and both guys like to brawl.

@AnAlias  We disagree.  Of course it matters.  
@Gregory  Diego beat Diaz and Kampmann.  He also beat Koscheck in TUF.  Yet he doesn't make your Top 10 cut.  If he beats Ellenberger, will he be deemed worthy to crack your Top 10?  Do you not admire his heart?  Nick Diaz would not have had as good a W-L if he had remained in the UFC & fought the level of quality that Sanchez has always had to face.

By the way, it would be cool if the automatic rankings function showed the Top 20, instead of Top 10.  I notice that MacDonald and Hathaway haven't fared well here.  I think they will soon prove themselves among the best.  They will win their spurs very soon.

Bill Burgess...You're always talking about how we need "official rankings" because Jon Fitch is getting screwed over.

If you believe that, than Diego being sick shouldn't matter.

* Edited at 10.12.2011, 9:53 PM ET *

@AnAlias  I don't follow your logic, my friend.  Official Rankings should not be strictly limited to one's W-L record.  Other factors need to be factored into the equation too.  Quality of opponents, injuries, numbers of quality fights, etc.  

To limit Rankings strictly to W-L would allow distortions into the process.  We are able to discern fine-tuning nuances. 

* Edited at 10.12.2011, 10:04 PM ET *

Diego beat Diaz and Kampmann. 

He beat Diaz 6 years ago. They are both completely different fighters now, and so much time has gone by that this isn't relevant at all to current rankings.  As for Kampmann, I thought Kampmann won the fight.  However in looking at my rankings, I'm not supposed to have Kampmann at 8, that's a mistake.

He also beat Koscheck in TUF. 

Diego was 11-0 heading into TUF.  Koscheck was 2-0.  This was so long ago that it's not relevant.

Yet he doesn't make your Top 10 cut.  If he beats Ellenberger, will he be deemed worthy to crack your Top 10? 

Yes, absolutely. But that hasn't happened yet.

Do you not admire his heart? 

Of course... but it's not relevant to where I rank him.

Nick Diaz would not have had as good a W-L if he had remained in the UFC & fought the level of quality that Sanchez has always had to face.

I agree, but Diaz wouldn't have gone 0-10 either.  We don't know what would have happened.  As it stands, he's on a 10 fight win streak, and that means something.  If he loses to Penn, he'll drop.

If you're going to have "official rankings", they should be based strictly on stats. 

If you're going to let subjectivity get involved, you might as well consider Sherdog's rankings "official rankings."

@analias is current that official rankings could only be based off of real statistics.  however, win-loss record is not the only stat.  quality of opposition can be made into a stat, as could all kinds of other things.

@ Bill "There is no way I can justify ranking Josh over Diego.  Can anyone explain it to me, as if I were 10 years old?"
Sure. Diego's only had three fights in the WW division since his loss to Penn for the LW title, and one of those was a loss to John Hathaway. Meanwhile, Josh just beat Hughes after coming up short in a title shot.
Diego's stint in the LW division is what hurts his ranking more than anything else.

Gregory...Quality of opposition...sure....fighter's with undiagnosed staph infections...not so much.

* Edited at 10.12.2011, 10:10 PM ET *

The 2 dark horses to watch are MacDonald and Hathaway.  People are lauding Rory and he's out in the open now.  But Hathawy is still the best-kept secret in WW.  He will soon make his presence known and take everybody by surprise.  Keep your eye on that kid. 

Thank you Gregory for taking the time to break down your analysis for me.  I appreciate that.  Your reasoning is solid, but we disagree that Diego's wins are irrelevant.

Sanchez is my second favorite active fighter, after GSP.  One of my pet peeves is how his wins are minimized and his losses exaggerated.  I have seldom seen a man get the W and receive so little bump.  When he beat Martin Kampmann, not only did Diego get no credit, no bump, but all anyone could say was, "Kampmann should have won."  ???  I don't get it.  Diego was losing, never quit, moved forward in the face of hard shots, took his lumps to get his own clean shots in and was rewarded with a razor-close win.  And then gets punked for his trouble.  How unfair!

But Diego loses to Penn and the sky is falling.  Woe be unto Diego!  He used all the wrong tactics, but Koscheck lost worse to GSP and NO demerits whatsoever.  GSP all but breaks his face, and all if forgiven Kos.  Kos took months to heal up.  He also lost to Alves, and again, no drop in his rankings.  He was knocked out by Paulo Thiago and his rankings are invincible.  Why in hell is Kos so teflon-coated in his rankings?  What does it take for Kos to lose a stripe?  

* Edited at 10.12.2011, 10:30 PM ET *

If you show up to fight, you're putting your ranking on the line, regardless of injuries, sickness, or anything else.  The amount those kind of things impact the outcomes of fights is not measurable, and completely subjective. 

Quality of opposition of course would factor in.  That's not subjective.  How much a fighter's injury or sickness impacts the outcome of any particular fight is total speculation, and should have nothing to do with rankings.

Koscheck should be ranked over Diego.

* Edited at 10.12.2011, 10:42 PM ET *

* Edited at 10.12.2011, 11:36 PM ET *

@AnAlias  Diego beat Paulo Thiago.  Thiago knocked out Kos in the first round.  Explain why Kos is better than Diego, setting their last fight aside, just for this exercise.

Diego has wins over Diaz, Karo Parisyan, Kampmann, Paulo Thiago, Joe Stevenson, Clay Guida, Luigi Fioravanti, Kenny Florian.  
Koscheck has wins over Hughes, Daley, Johnson, Lytle, Hazelett.

If you say that Diego's wins over Florian, Koscheck, Diaz and Karo happened so long ago that they don't count, then I say that Hughes and Trigg were washed up.  If Diego defeats Ellenberger, as he probably will, will that influence you to rank him above Crybaby Kos?

* Edited at 10.12.2011, 11:34 PM ET *

MMA math with Paulo Thiago doesn't mean much.  After all, Paulo went on to lose to Diego, Fitch, and Kampmann, while Koscheck went on to earn a title shot.

You're characterization of Koscheck as a "crybaby" shows your unfair bias against him.

Diego might beat Ellenberger.  Let's wait until he actually wins before we up his ranking, shall we?

* Edited at 10.12.2011, 11:39 PM ET *

@Bill Crybaby Kos?  Ya real mature, how about you take your bitterness and project it onto something other than another man.  Diego is a great fighter and in the top 10 for sure but Koscheck beat him, and in my opinion has faced better comptetion. 

Mines..WARRR GSP AND ELLENBERGER!

So, if I argue too hard for a fighter, I am bitter?  Well, you know what?  Maybe I am.  I do feel bad for Diego Sanchez. When he was 19-0, he STILL was not given a title shot against then-champion, Matt Hughes.  They wait until he finally lost a split decision against Jon Fitch and then when he was sick, he didn't cancel the fight.  He manned up and fought through it and lost to Koscheck. 

And because he did the brave thing, everyone thinks he's not as good as Kos?  I don't buy it.  But there's only one way to settle this.  They must rematch.  Then, I'll shut up and stop whining.  Why did Koscheck 'earn' a second fight against GSP?  I don't see how his record forced it.  Sanchez' wins don't give him a bounce, and Kos' losses don't get held against him. 
 
Me bitter?  Maybe I'm so into fairness, ethics and doing the 'right thing', I have a hard time when a great fighter is not given his due, as is so obvious in the cases of Sanchez and Fitch.  If that's bitter, maybe I should concede the point.  Maybe I am.