let's discuss our LW rankings

alright bill hopefully this should work for you ...

Fitch grinded because he couldn't strike or apparently submit very well.

Benson does it because he's only good at any single aspect. Good wrestling but there are many better, good subs but hasn't finished anyone since Cowboy in the WEC, decent striking, although more varied than most, but with almost no finishing power. 

GSP was the worst offender. He could KO people, he could submit people, he could've outwrestled them to gain advantageous position in order to go for finishes but was content with decisions after getting caught with a counter sub by Hughes and KOed by Serra. You'd have to be blind to think he truly tried to finish Hardy, Alves, Kos the 2nd time, or Shields. I'll give him a pass on his 3 fights since he returned because it definitely seemed the field had caught up to him but to quit for whatever excuse after clearly getting beaten up but winning a VERY controversial decision was the ONLY way he could've damaged his legacy as bad as he did imo.

GSP the worst offender?  Ooh, that hurts.  Despite what Dana White says, the main idea is not to finish but to WIN.  Proven winners should not be looked down on or discriminated by HOW they win.

MMA was born to determine which style or combination of styles won and beat the others.  Finishing a fight is incidental.  Winning is the goal, not finishing or being entertaining to us fans.

By focusing so hard on finishing and cutting proven winners, the UFC is distorting the original purpose of MMA, just to make money.  Proven winners must be not only be tolerated but respected.

By refusing to allow Ben Askren into the UFC, the UFC has proven just how far they have strayed from the original and beautiful beginnings of MMA.  Shame on them, and shame on those fans that go along with it.

Dana White's head is so far up his ass that he'd rather watch someone lose excitingly than win boringly.  

* Edited at 01.23.2014, 9:30 AM ET *

I wouldn't say GSP was the worst offender, but i would agree that he should have finished Dan Hardy and Jake Shields. As far as the Hendricks fight, i had GSP winning after watching the fight several times. There were some key moments in which JH, i feel, cost himself the fight.

Round 2 - he didn't go for the finish when GSP was clearly rocked, NOT knocked down, like he typically does.

Round 4 - putting some pretty decent GnP on GSP, who couldn't out of the bottom, but he let him up.....?

Round 5 - clearly had plent of gas in the tank, yet came out and showboated for a bit before being caught with a stiff 1-2 combo and taken down.

While only round 5 cost him on the judges score cards, he can only put the blame on himself for the other two rounds.

When the UFC bought Pride and Strikeforce, I was elated.  Ecstatic.  But not now.  The UFC has become too powerful in its field.  When they cut people who shouldn't be cut, or refuse to hire people who are deserving, they ruin careers.  It's as simple as that.

I now realize it would be much healthier for MMA to have several organizations of comparable strength.  Healthier for the fighters, to be sure, and what's best for them is best for MMA.

To have one powerful, premium brand so much ahead of the rest is like having a National League without an American League.  Too much power corrupts.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

This will evolve down the road and I hope I live to see it.  And cross-promotion will someday come to MMA, one way or another.  Money will make it happen.  You read it here first.

* Edited at 01.23.2014, 9:58 AM ET *

I disagree. The last thing I want is a bunch of organization with comparable strength. Then it will turn into boxing, where the best guys never fight and there always the "which champ is the best" debate.

* Edited at 01.23.2014, 10:16 AM ET *

 the main idea is not to finish but to WIN. 


 I agree that winning should be the main objective but pursuing the finish SHOULD be the plan of all fighters because every second you're in a fight is a chance for your opponent to win. Obviously this is not an either/or situation. Must be balance so you don't get "Pete Sell"ed to use one of the most famous cases.


MMA was born to determine which style or combination of styles won and beat the others. 
You forgot "in a real fight". That was the stated aim of the original UFC even though we know it was actually an exended infomercial for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu in particular and Brazilian jiu-jitsu in general. In a real fight means absolutely no rules. Now obviously you have to have rules but the more rules, the farther from a real fight, so winning by "points" is to be avoided. Winning a decision, especially when the opposition is just as tough/skilled as you, is usually more impressive than a quick KO or Sub. Usually. But coasting, not in the last round but as soon as you know you're better than the opponent is what I'm talking about.


I agree about Askren. The ONLY part of his fights that bored me were his opponents complete helplessness. I never thought he L'n'Ped. He constantly improved position and imo used his wrestling like Cain in that he wasn't mostly worried about the opponent getting back up because, to me, he seemed very confident in his ability to put them back down if he did. This is what I'm talking about with regards to GSP. Fitch, Guida (vs. Pettts anyway), etc. And Askren is still a "newbie" in MMA and his finishing rate has improved in his last few fights. I also thought Sherk got unfairly labeled as a L'n'Per because he was constantly improving his position & while his G'n'P hardly ever resulted in a finish, due to his physical limitations it was clearly his wisest strategy because he was at a huge reach & height disadvantage in almost all of his fights.


People focus waaaay too much on what Dana has to say. He's a promoter, which means he's a liar like all salesmen (or women :D). But I agree with him in that I'd rather watch a fighter lose excitingly than win in a boring fashion. Again not a cut & dried issue. For example, Edgar couldn't finish LWs either, but I consider his "point" style to have been necessary due to his always being the smaller fighter at LW and even now at FW. 


And I hope that my "GSP was the worst offender" comment did hurt in that it helped to you realize his wasted potential. He was (is?) a great fighter no doubt but could've been sooooooo much greater.

@Bill. This is what happens with all pro sports. You get a bunch of ****** organiza
tions that either fold or grow over time. Eventually to make things run smoothly, one wins out, and it's usually made up of all the people who worked to make the sport what it is (Sean Shelby, Scott Coker, etc) so you get the top people from all orgs runnings it.

Just a side note: People are (rightfully) complaining about the Fight Pass. It's not only the UFC, 

I have the NBA League Pass: it sucks ass sometimes. 

My roommate has NHL Center Ice: sucks ass sometimes. 

My friend has NFL ticket. Sucks ass sometimes (Although the NFL package seems to have the fewest flaws)


I'm talking about the online product, not the cable service.

Anthony Pettis is now wanting to fight Benson Henderson for his come-back fight.  Hope the UFC doesn't veto it.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1934084-anthony-pettis-looking-to-return-in-5-months-doctor-says-thats-optimistic?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=mma

* Edited at 01.23.2014, 5:05 PM ET *

I don't really see anything that says he want's Henderson for his comeback, it only says he is picking him in this fight.

If Henderson beats Thomson, that's a hard sell to put anyone else in. Maybe Melendez if he doesn't fight Khabib. I assume Grant is still out?

When Pettis defeated Henderson, Dana White said that there would not be a third fight between them.  How strange.  I felt that was inappropriate.

After all, White never said that Junior dos Santos would never have another shot against Velasquez, in an even more lopsided situation.  If Henderson puts together a winning run, how can they deny him?

He probably meant a rematch. Which wasn't deserved. Honestly, I would've liked to see Henderson have 3 wins before a rematch, but with all the injuries, you gotta go with what you got.

If Henderson wins they'll match him with Khabib and give the shot to Melendez. A guess, but after Dana said yesterday that if Benson wins they'll take a look at what Gil's up for, I think that's a safe bet on what they'll plan since they can't get anyone else to fight Khabib. 

That's ridiculous if Habeeb fights Bendo and has to take that long between fights when he is healthy and ready to fight. The LW division is shook. 

@mule Thanks for a great sparring session.  Seldom do I enjoy sparring with someone who has such profound opposite core MMA values as me.  But you found a way to make it excellent.  I had a better time disagreeing with you than agreeing with some others!  Ironic but true.

I agree with zarog.  Now that Henderson defeated Thomson, they will probably give Melendez the next title shot and match Henderson with Khabid Nurmagomedov.

It was unfortunate Thomson broke his right hand, but that's part of the fight game.  

josh is talking about retirement and at the age of 35  i dont see him having to many more fights if any :(

Just wow. Last night was the perfect example of so much of what is wrong with MMA as it is currently scored and judged. Close fight. Deserved SD (which should be Benson's official new nickname) but when they read the scores and the 3rd & deciding score was announced as 49-46, I raised my hand and said yes because I KNEW it had to be Josh because there was NO WAY Henderson won 4 rounds. Should've known better. Benson has mastered the art of playing to the judges. All of his strikes are intended/designed to LOOK impressive rather than finish. This seems so obvious to me. Rewatch the fight and see who disengages and moves away from STRIKING exchanges (not circles away from the cage to avoid clinch exchanges). 

Excerpts from the revised unified rules:


Summary of Changes: 
 
 
1.Effective Defense Removed as a criteria: 
 
Effective Defense will no longer be considered a requirement for the following 
reasons: 
 
1. The committee believes that offensive actions should be the only criteria 
used to score MMA matches. Offensive fighters are fighters which carry 
the fight and push the action, and make the fight happen. 
 
2. Defense is its own reward. A fighter who chooses to avoid using defensive 
actions will invariably suffer the consequences. For example if a fighter 
decides that they do not want to block or avoid a strike, protect 
themselves from a submission, or avoid a throw or takedown then they will 
suffer the results of those offensive actions being used against them. The 
only role defensive action plays is to keep a fighter in the fight longer so 
that they can attempt to score using offensive actions. 
 
3. Having two fighters avoid offensive actions and rely solely on defense 
goes against the basic primary consideration of any combative sport: To 
score using offense. 


“Effective striking” is judged by determining the impact of legal strikes landed 
by a contestant and the number of such legal strikes. Heavier strikes that have a 
visible impact on the opponent will be given more weight than the number of 
strikes landed. These assessments include causing an opponent to appear 
stunned from a legal blow, causing the opponent to stagger, appearance of a cut 
or bruise from a legal strike and causing the opponent to show pain. Cumulative 
impact on a fighter will also be weighed. If neither fighter shows an advantage in 
impact of strikes, the number of strikes will determine the most effective striker. 
 
 
“Effective grappling” is judged by considering the amount of successful 
executions of a legal takedown, reversals and submission attempts. Examples of 
factors to consider are take downs from standing position to mount position, 
passing the guard to a dominant position,



. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 Round when a contestant wins by a large 
margin,


A round is to be scored as a 10-7 Round when a contestant totally dominates 

Someone's gonna have to step up and fight Khabib. TJ Grant or Bendo maybe? Most guy's don't want to tangle with him and I don't blame them. The UFC is going to have to keep the division moving forward regardless of the champ's injury.  

benson will get khabib i think