Topic: UFC 181

UFC 181: Hendricks vs. Lawler 2 Discussion Thread

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skelliher

Location: Boston, MA
Member Since: 2010.05.24
Predictions: 5,670 | 63.4%
Forum Posts: 11,051
Post Score: 245

12.05.2014 | 7:37 PM ET

Predictions: 8 of 11 Winners, 4 Perfect, 605 Points | Tied for 189th

The fighters are weighed in and everyone (thank god) is set for Saturday night.

Prelims kick off on UFC Fight Pass at 7pm ET followed by more prelims on FS1 at 8pm and the PPV main card at 10pm.

This should be a great one, boys and girls!

"When a game cannot be won, change the game."

Saturday 12.06.2014 at 10:00 PM ET
U.S. Broadcast: Pay Per View | Prelims: Fox Sports 1
Promotion: Ultimate Fighting Championship
Ownership: Zuffa, LLC
Venue: Mandalay Bay Events Center
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
Enclosure: Octagon
TV Announcers: Mike Goldberg, Joe Rogan
Ring Announcer: Bruce Buffer
Post-Fight Interviews: Joe Rogan
Ticket Revenue (live gate): $2,488,000
Attendance: 9,617
PPV Buys / Buyrate: 400,000 | TV Ratings: 840,000 avg. viewers (FS1 prelims)
MMA Bouts: 11
Promotion Links:
Event Links:

Bout		Info
Robbie Lawler defeats Johny Hendricks via Decision, Split		5 Rounds, 25:00 Total Bout Page
Anthony Pettis defeats Gilbert Melendez via Submission, Guillotine Choke		1:53 Round 2 of 5, 6:53 Total Bout Page
Travis Browne defeats Brendan Schaub via KO/TKO, Ground and Pound		4:50 Round 1 of 3 Bout Page
Todd Duffee defeats Anthony Hamilton via KO/TKO, Punches		0:33 Round 1 of 3 Bout Page
Tony Ferguson defeats Abel Trujillo via Submission, Rear Naked Choke		4:19 Round 2 of 3, 9:19 Total Bout Page
Urijah Faber defeats Francisco Rivera Jr. via Submission, Bulldog Choke		1:34 Round 2 of 3, 6:34 Total Bout Page
Josh Samman defeats Eddie Gordon via KO/TKO, Head Kick		3:08 Round 2 of 3, 8:08 Total Bout Page
Corey Anderson defeats Justin Jones via Decision, Unanimous		3 Rounds, 15:00 Total Bout Page
Raquel Pennington defeats Ashlee Evans-Smith via Submission, Bulldog Choke		4:59 Round 1 of 3 Bout Page
Sergio Pettis defeats Matt Hobar via Decision, Unanimous		3 Rounds, 15:00 Total Bout Page
Clay Collard defeats Alex White via Decision, Unanimous		3 Rounds, 15:00 Total Bout Page

Responses Page 34
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skelliher

Location: Boston, MA
Member Since: 2010.05.24
Predictions: 5,670 | 63.4%
Forum Posts: 11,051
Post Score: 245

12.07.2014 | 7:27 PM ET

Predictions: 8 of 11 Winners, 4 Perfect, 605 Points | Tied for 189th

I'm not proclaiming Pettis the LW GOAT. He hasn't proven it, but in all likelihood he is the most skilled LW champ we've ever had.

In terms of accomplishments, he's not.

But did people really have Hughs as the WW GOAT before GSP broke his record with the Diaz title defense?

Come on, now.

"When a game cannot be won, change the game."

theMMAmessiah

Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Member Since: 2011.09.17
Predictions: 7,993 | 66.5%
Forum Posts: 8,433
Post Score: 103

12.07.2014 | 7:29 PM ET

Predictions: 7 of 11 Winners, 3 Perfect, 505 Points | Tied for 728th

Who gives a **** what weight class they were at, you can't reward him for that. The guy barely won more times then he didn't win, you add the draws and he won 16 and lost 12. To say he is the greatest of anything is stupid. As far as couture goes as I was saying HW was absolutely nothing back then. Not even professional athletes. Just big dudes who decided **** it I'm going to train to punch someone.

theMMAmessiah

Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Member Since: 2011.09.17
Predictions: 7,993 | 66.5%
Forum Posts: 8,433
Post Score: 103

12.07.2014 | 7:31 PM ET

Predictions: 7 of 11 Winners, 3 Perfect, 505 Points | Tied for 728th

I mean **** the best win he has at LW is Kenny Florian, and Jose (who is at a lower weight since you value that so highly) beat kflo worse than penn did. His other 2 dominant wins are against Stevenson who couldn't even stay on the roster after the new guys started showing up and Sanchez who I think has beyond proven can lose to anyone on any night.

p4pgoat

Location: USA
Member Since: 2011.02.25
Predictions: 4,888 | 62.9%
Forum Posts: 3,908
Post Score: 143

12.07.2014 | 7:35 PM ET

Predictions: 8 of 11 Winners, 2 Perfect, 505 Points | Tied for 710th

You can't hold losses against Penn in fights that he didn't lose in the LIGHTWEIGHT division. The original discussion was the greatest LW. You are trying to have 3 different debates at one time. Penn's overall record hurts him a lot in the GOAT fighter discussion which I don't think anyone would try and argue him as the GOAT anyway. Your love affair with Pettis' athleticism is clouding your judgement. Let's see if it actually takes him less then a year to fight again.

"We are all human, it's time to prove it."

theMMAmessiah

Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Member Since: 2011.09.17
Predictions: 7,993 | 66.5%
Forum Posts: 8,433
Post Score: 103

12.07.2014 | 7:36 PM ET

Predictions: 7 of 11 Winners, 3 Perfect, 505 Points | Tied for 728th

Nostalgia is something that is ingrained into the minds of like 99% of people. That's why everyone thinks the greates tv show or movie they ever watched is something they saw when they were growing up or that no one now is ever as good as someone back then. It's a chemical reaction in the brain. It's why people HAAAAAAATE the Star Wars prequels but yet love the original trilogy. Same writer same bad acting and same bad directing, but people saw right through the prequels because it doesn't have that nostalgia and wonder the original movies created.

theMMAmessiah

Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Member Since: 2011.09.17
Predictions: 7,993 | 66.5%
Forum Posts: 8,433
Post Score: 103

12.07.2014 | 7:37 PM ET

Predictions: 7 of 11 Winners, 3 Perfect, 505 Points | Tied for 728th

People classify Penn as the greatest mainly for how he beat Hughes and won the WW belt, you can't count the wins if you don't count the losses.

p4pgoat

Location: USA
Member Since: 2011.02.25
Predictions: 4,888 | 62.9%
Forum Posts: 3,908
Post Score: 143

12.07.2014 | 7:46 PM ET

Predictions: 8 of 11 Winners, 2 Perfect, 505 Points | Tied for 710th

It has nothing to do with nostalgia for me. It has everything to do with not forgetting the accomplishments of past athletes. And that rings true for any sport. Example, not everyone agrees but for the most part players, coaches and writers would say Joe Montana is the best QB of all time. They don't say well he played against less athletic defensive players so he surely can't be the best. Of what he did in his era he was the best just like BJ was the best LW of his era no matter how much you want to discount him. To me if you want to be the best then defend your title multiple times and stay at the top for a while.

The other thing is I'm not even a fan of Penn's. I think he was lazy at times, came into fights out of shape, whined when he lost and talked **** that he couldn't back up in some instances. However at this point in time he's the best LW fighter the UFC has ever seen.

"We are all human, it's time to prove it."

theMMAmessiah

Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Member Since: 2011.09.17
Predictions: 7,993 | 66.5%
Forum Posts: 8,433
Post Score: 103

12.07.2014 | 7:52 PM ET

Predictions: 7 of 11 Winners, 3 Perfect, 505 Points | Tied for 728th

No, when Joe Montana played the NFL had been around for decades and was paying millions of dollars. BJ penn fought before it even became a sport that you could have a as a job. That's what none of you MMA folk understand. The sport JUST STARTED. Nobody from the beginning will compare to the people to come.

* Edited at 12.07.2014, 7:55 PM ET *

theMMAmessiah

Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Member Since: 2011.09.17
Predictions: 7,993 | 66.5%
Forum Posts: 8,433
Post Score: 103

12.07.2014 | 7:53 PM ET

Predictions: 7 of 11 Winners, 3 Perfect, 505 Points | Tied for 728th

I'm sure there was a guy running around with Dr. Naismith back in the day that could have dropped 40 on Jordan. Pfffffft

* Edited at 12.07.2014, 7:54 PM ET *

theMMAmessiah

Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Member Since: 2011.09.17
Predictions: 7,993 | 66.5%
Forum Posts: 8,433
Post Score: 103

12.07.2014 | 7:54 PM ET

Predictions: 7 of 11 Winners, 3 Perfect, 505 Points | Tied for 728th

FantasyMMA

Member Since: 2013.10.29
Predictions: 278 | 62.6%
Forum Posts: 712
Post Score: 145

12.07.2014 | 8:01 PM ET

Predictions: 2 of 3 Winners, 1 Perfect, 150 Points | Tied for 1488th

I got a lot of respect for Pettis and his ability in this game but it is WAY too early to claim him as the GOAT LW. I agree with who ever said you have to count the loses and he lost to Clay Guida 5 fights ago and Bart Palewhoski before that. He has the most title defenses. Anyone saying Florian was his best LW win is foolish. Sherk was a monster and Penn destroyed him. At his best Penn was head and shoulders the best LW, there are still challengers for Pettis.

Let's not take anything away from him and this victory and let's not put unfair comparisons on him at this point. Just like with Weidman at MW, Jones at LHW, Cain at HW ect. Let them have their fights and see where their careers go then we can judge them.

theMMAmessiah

Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Member Since: 2011.09.17
Predictions: 7,993 | 66.5%
Forum Posts: 8,433
Post Score: 103

12.07.2014 | 8:12 PM ET

Predictions: 7 of 11 Winners, 3 Perfect, 505 Points | Tied for 728th

It doesn't take time or years or any of that. I watch Pettis fight and I KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's better then Penn ever was, it's that simple.

SoccerKick

Location: Colorado
Member Since: 2011.02.09
Predictions: 32,055 | 61.8%
Forum Posts: 13,504
Post Score: 186

12.07.2014 | 8:51 PM ET

Predictions: 7 of 11 Winners, 3 Perfect, 490 Points | Tied for 801st

Pettis has the potential to be the greatest LW of all time, but history is full of guys that had potential that their bodies failed them

"I'm too old to be run by the fears of dumb people "

: DelRose

12.07.2014 | 8:57 PM ET

Predictions: 5 of 7 Winners, 1 Perfect, 330 Points | Tied for 1374th

It's true, he's better than Penn. And he can easily become champion at featherweight too.

"That hole is tighter than a nuns nasty"

theMMAmessiah

Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Member Since: 2011.09.17
Predictions: 7,993 | 66.5%
Forum Posts: 8,433
Post Score: 103

12.07.2014 | 9:14 PM ET

Predictions: 7 of 11 Winners, 3 Perfect, 505 Points | Tied for 728th

Does anybody that actually remembers how the fight with guidance went think that Pettis wouldn't have absolutely won with 2 more rounds? Because he would have, and anybody now that ever wants to beat him is going to have to avoid a single mistake while keeping perfect cardio for 5 full rounds.

I don't see it happening.

Lopati

Location: Hillsboro, OR, 97123
Member Since: 2011.08.05
Predictions: 18,574 | 61.4%
Forum Posts: 13,352
Post Score: 179

12.07.2014 | 9:41 PM ET

Predictions: 8 of 11 Winners, 4 Perfect, 600 Points | Tied for 200th

There were not two more rounds and while I scored tge Guida fight for Pettis it shows as a loss add that to a loss to Bartimus and Pettis' two losses at LW are worse than any of BJ's losses combined.

I understand your point about Pettis being a better athlete, but that doesn't mean you are a better fighter.

BJ has a huge advantage over Pettis on ground in the same way that Pettis has a huge advantage over BJ standing.

Without BJ you never have a Pettis!

As of December 7th, 2014 BJ Penn is the GREATEST LIGHTWEIGHT ever! Now that could change with time, but as of today BJ holds that title.

"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it." Jose Ortega y Gasset

theMMAmessiah

Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Member Since: 2011.09.17
Predictions: 7,993 | 66.5%
Forum Posts: 8,433
Post Score: 103

12.07.2014 | 9:45 PM ET

Predictions: 7 of 11 Winners, 3 Perfect, 505 Points | Tied for 728th

I'd definitely argue that a loss to bartimus is better than a draw to uno, but that's just me.

theMMAmessiah

Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Member Since: 2011.09.17
Predictions: 7,993 | 66.5%
Forum Posts: 8,433
Post Score: 103

12.07.2014 | 9:46 PM ET

Predictions: 7 of 11 Winners, 3 Perfect, 505 Points | Tied for 728th

Also I think it's a pretty big leap you're making to assume bj had clearly better ground game when Pettis has just submitted 2 former champs who prior had never been submitted.

Lopati

Location: Hillsboro, OR, 97123
Member Since: 2011.08.05
Predictions: 18,574 | 61.4%
Forum Posts: 13,352
Post Score: 179

12.07.2014 | 9:54 PM ET

Predictions: 8 of 11 Winners, 4 Perfect, 600 Points | Tied for 200th

do you wanna talk losses or draws? Because they are different. BJ's list of opponents is a who's who of MMA. Pettis' list is some guys that in ten years nobody will remember with some great guys sprinkled in.

Lopati

Location: Hillsboro, OR, 97123
Member Since: 2011.08.05
Predictions: 18,574 | 61.4%
Forum Posts: 13,352
Post Score: 179

12.07.2014 | 9:55 PM ET

Predictions: 8 of 11 Winners, 4 Perfect, 600 Points | Tied for 200th

Big Leap? It's common knowledge. Pettis have a black belt?

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38	Chickwood	9 of 11	680
38	auggie1313	9 of 11	680
42	dielegende23	10 of 11	675
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42	Gene Funds	10 of 11	675
45	TAIKI	9 of 11	675
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45	Dannotheman	9 of 11	675
45	Fendarr	9 of 11	675
45	sksmsbrian	9 of 11	675
45	MVS2013	9 of 11	675

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Topic: UFC 181

UFC 181: Hendricks vs. Lawler 2 Discussion Thread

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