Topic: Top Middleweights - 185 lbs.

Okami vs. Boetsch

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kaonohiokala
kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 7:29 AM ET

Right now, Okami is a consensus 6th while Boetsch is 13th.  I'm not sure exactly why this is when Boetsch KTFO'd Okami in one of the most barbaric and violent KOs of the year.  It could be that people didn't know that Okami got KTFO'd or something... but seriously, the difference in their rankings is ridiculous.

"E momole aku ana i Keka‘a ka ua nahua."

Responses

jaffacakehero
jaffacakehero
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03.12.2012 | 7:36 AM ET

You have Boetsch ahead of Munoz after he beats one top 10 guy,THAT is something truly ridiculous!

"If you're matched up against me, you better be prepared to give your life...because I am prepared to take it. - Conor McGregor"

kaonohiokala
kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 7:58 AM ET

Boetsch is an undefeated middleweight and just beat the guy who beat Munoz. Not sure how Boetsch being ahead of Munoz doesn't make sense to you.

"E momole aku ana i Keka‘a ka ua nahua."

jaffacakehero
jaffacakehero
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03.12.2012 | 8:10 AM ET

And Munoz beat the guy who beat your no.2 MW so judging by your reasoning Munoz should be no.2! I see what you're saying but MMA math gets you nowhere....

"If you're matched up against me, you better be prepared to give your life...because I am prepared to take it. - Conor McGregor"

Yaspaa
Yaspaa
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03.12.2012 | 8:26 AM ET

Boetsch was getting his ass handed to him and got lucky, it made my day so he still moves up the ranking, but he wasn't high enough up the ranking to justify him being top 5ish, but he makes the top 10, for me anyway.

"I Get Better."

kaonohiokala
kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 9:34 AM ET

@ jaffacakehero: are you seriously taking into consideration an old wrestling match for MMA rankings?  Munoz's biggest wins at MW are Chris Leben and Demian Maia, and his last loss was to Yushin Okami.  He hasn't beaten anyone better than Okami since losing to him, so I see no reason in placing him ahead of Okami.

@Yaspaa: yeah, he was getting beat up pretty bad throughout the fight, but in the end he pulled through and got the win in decisive fashion.  putting him below Okami still doesn't make sense... are you ranking Barry over Kongo and Alves over Kampmann just because they were losing the fight pretty badly up until their comeback?  A win is a win, and in Boetsch's case he earned it by turning up the pressure on Okami to a level Okami couldn't handle.

"E momole aku ana i Keka‘a ka ua nahua."

jaffacakehero
jaffacakehero
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03.12.2012 | 9:42 AM ET

No pal

You're using MMA math by saying Boetsch beat the guy who beat Munoz so he deserves to be ranked ahead of him

Munoz beat Maia who previously demolished Sonnen so using your reasoning means Munoz should be ranked no.2

It was a great comeback by Boetsch but one big win doesn't undermine solid wins by guys like Munoz and Okami over a long period of time

You're just wrong

"If you're matched up against me, you better be prepared to give your life...because I am prepared to take it. - Conor McGregor"

Russello
Russello
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03.12.2012 | 9:45 AM ET

Unfortunately Kano, you have to think if Okami and Boetsch rematched would it go down the same way? I think Okami would win.

"In the quiet words of the virgin Mary.. come again?"

kaonohiokala
kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 10:11 AM ET

@ jaffacakehero: You seem to not understand how rankings work in general.  Your jumping to conclusions and assuming that the most basic form of rankings (essentially a who-beat-who) does not work due to circular logic.  Really, your assumptions are just making you look silly at this point.  Yes, Maia defeated Sonnen, but guess what?  After Maia beat Sonnen, he lost to Marquardt, who Sonnen then beat.  If you go ahead and assume that rankings don't work due to circular logic, you're really missing the bigger picture here.  Yes, Maia beat Sonnen, but that was an outdated win (as in Maia's rank over Sonnen), as Maia lost his momentum by losing to Marquardt who lost to Sonnen.  Look at the timing of it, and you'll begin to understand that saying "who beat who" isn't as illogical as you think it is.

@ Russello: If they rematched, I'd pick Boetsch to beat Okami again.  Okami literally had nothing to offer when Boetsch increased the pace against Okami.  Boetsch knows this now, and if the two were to fight again, Boetsch would know how to win.  Yeah, Okami could change his gameplan and training to counter it, but Boetsch would still be coming in with a strong mental advantage.

* Edited at 03.12.2012, 10:12 AM ET *

"E momole aku ana i Keka‘a ka ua nahua."

Russello
Russello
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03.12.2012 | 10:13 AM ET

@ kaonohiokala, Its probably best you dont tell blackbelts that THEY dont understand something, chances are it's your who doesnt understand. He's been respectful of your beliefs, even though yours is more likely to be wrong. While it's obviously nice to have new people on the site I don't think you should talk down to people who appear to be more knowledgeable than you.. Thats fine you'd pick Boetsch and I can understand why, but I bet a larger amount of people would rank Okami above Boetsch and choose Okami to win a rematch.

* Edited at 03.12.2012, 10:15 AM ET *

"In the quiet words of the virgin Mary.. come again?"

kaonohiokala
kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 10:32 AM ET

@ Russello: Uh oh, I guess we're basing intelligence level on Tapology "belt level" here.  Spare me the fallacious concepts.   I'm really not sure how you consider a post that ends with "You're just wrong" as being "respectful of your beliefs."

Seriously, my mind is blow at your belief that Tapology belt level = MMA knowledge.  Please explain to me your reasoning behind your assumed perfect correlation of the two things.

* Edited at 03.12.2012, 10:33 AM ET *

"E momole aku ana i Keka‘a ka ua nahua."

poir420
poir420
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03.12.2012 | 10:38 AM ET

Boetsch only has 3 fights at this weight, granted one was over a highly ranked middleweight but to put him in the top 5 is a bit quick in my opinion...

So do you think he should get a title shot next? or fight the winner of vitor/wanderlei?


"“All of a sudden, he was shooting for a takedown, and I’m like, ‘Oh, you’re a wrestler now? Remember, I’m the black belt in jiu-jitsu. And you’re shooting on me now? This is a wrap." - Nate Diaz"

kaonohiokala
kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 10:49 AM ET

@ poir420: The main thing we have to keep in mind regarding UFC title shots is that while rankings mean a lot, they don't mean everything.  It's often the most advertisable guy that gets the shot.  As Dana White would say, Boetsch is "in the mix" right now.  In the MW title picture right now, we have Boetsch, Weidman, Palhares/Belcher winner, and Dan Henderson.  IMO, any match-up between the former three fighters would warrant a title shot, with Hendo being promised an immediate title shot (which could also be for LHW as well).  Of course if any of them beat any consensus top 10 contenders it would move them closer to a title shot as well.

"E momole aku ana i Keka‘a ka ua nahua."

hitcher
hitcher
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03.12.2012 | 10:49 AM ET

@ kaonohiokala Why isn't Bisping in your top10?

"I usually tell girls, "I have my **** and this knife. One of them is going inside of you, you choose". "

Russello
Russello
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03.12.2012 | 10:52 AM ET

@kaonohiokala, You're brilliant. I never mentioned your intelligence level, but your insecurity immediately made you defend it. Also, his blackbelt signifies to me he's been part of MMA (watching it anyways) for a while, where as I can see little evidence of you following it for a long time. It wasnt a dig, for all I know you've been following since UFC 1 and the PRIDE days, but I see no evidence so far; it wasnt an insult.

Look at the way you're talking. Your posts are blunt and rude, with arrogance/self-righteousness throughout them. 'Spare me ..' - Dont make a thread if you dont want people disagreeing with you, cause it will happen, especially when you rank Boetsch 4th.

Also, he said 'you're just wrong' in the same way I'm about to, because I love a good MMA debate and I would of liked to engage with you, but your attitude doesnt leave space for criticism, so my response will be:

You're just wrong. Im not going to respond you either, lets just agree to disagree and leave it there. Also, I really liked Dragonball Z when I was younger. The Cell saga was the best ;)

* Edited at 03.12.2012, 10:55 AM ET *

"In the quiet words of the virgin Mary.. come again?"

kaonohiokala
kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 10:53 AM ET

@hitcher : IMO, Bisping needs a legit top ten win to break into the top ten.  Some people think his winning streak of four lower-ranked fighters deserved him a spot in the top ten, others thought that his loss to Sonnen was so impressive that he deserved the spot.

I feel that he definitely has the skills to get into the top ten easily, but my rankings are based on past performances rather than potential who-would-beat-who match-ups (it's a flawed concept due to the fact that styles make fights, not rankings).

@Russello: Tapology is a new website.  Maybe if this was Sherdog and a user had tons of posts and a join date of 2003 then you could assume that he's been a part of MMA for a long time, but seriously, Tapology was founded in 2010, a year where the sport had already reached the mainstream.  Even on other sites, things like "post count" and "user level" don't always necessarily show how long a user has been with a community, but it often shows how much free time they have on their hands.  And it seems like your debate etiquette is a bit backwards.  Standing with your argument and shutting down the arguments of others is what should be expected in a debate, while saying something like "you're just wrong" when the topic in question is something completely subjective is immature at best.

* Edited at 03.12.2012, 11:03 AM ET *

"E momole aku ana i Keka‘a ka ua nahua."

jaffacakehero
jaffacakehero
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03.12.2012 | 11:01 AM ET

"If you're matched up against me, you better be prepared to give your life...because I am prepared to take it. - Conor McGregor"

kaonohiokala
kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 11:03 AM ET

"E momole aku ana i Keka‘a ka ua nahua."

Russello
Russello
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03.12.2012 | 11:05 AM ET

I love threads like that, I seriously do. That is a commitment to MMA I dont gace. Its like me asking 'Hey, Jaffacakehero, who do you think is the 57th best striker of all time?!'

He's also talking about debate etiquette on the internet, fantastic. I really think Im going to enjoy him being around, he might even get my 5th follow.

* Edited at 03.12.2012, 11:07 AM ET *

"In the quiet words of the virgin Mary.. come again?"

kaonohiokala
kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 11:10 AM ET

You're the one who brought up debate etiquette first.  >_>

And who doesn't love Andy Wang?  Just make sure to keep discussion of him on that topic so that we can stick to the subject here.

"E momole aku ana i Keka‘a ka ua nahua."

Russello
Russello
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03.12.2012 | 11:11 AM ET

No, you're wrong. ;)

"In the quiet words of the virgin Mary.. come again?"


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