Topic: Top Middleweights - 185 lbs.

Okami vs. Boetsch

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kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 7:29 AM ET

Right now, Okami is a consensus 6th while Boetsch is 13th.  I'm not sure exactly why this is when Boetsch KTFO'd Okami in one of the most barbaric and violent KOs of the year.  It could be that people didn't know that Okami got KTFO'd or something... but seriously, the difference in their rankings is ridiculous.

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kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 11:12 AM ET




"E momole aku ana i Keka‘a ka ua nahua."

dielegende23
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03.12.2012 | 11:13 AM ET

@kaonohiokala I went to your other rankings and it was interesting and also revealing. You placed Askren and Hireon on 3. & 4. in the WW div. or Rashad on 1. in the LHW div.

That's all I need to know :->

My ranking here needs a refresh too, I would put Boetsch on 10 or 9 ...

" I feel like Davy Crockett on the walls of the Alamo, swinging Old Betsy as the enemy swarmed in with bayonets. Sheesh. Listen you young punks....." - Bill Burgess

Almo
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03.12.2012 | 11:17 AM ET

@kao  Why the hell is Leben in your top 10? 

"Anger is never without a reason, but seldom with a good one" - Benjamin Franklin

kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 11:19 AM ET

People have been seriously underestimating Wanderlei Silva at MW.  He's the man who beat Bisping if you can't remember.  Well, Leben KO'd him viciously.

EDIT: As for the other rankings, Rashad's there for the lulz.  Askren and Hieron are that high mainly because of Hieron's awesomeness.  If Hieron were to rematch Ellenberger today, I'd still take him in the rematch.  Askren's only ranked above him because he "beat" him, even though the decision was debatable.

* Edited at 03.12.2012, 11:21 AM ET *

"E momole aku ana i Keka‘a ka ua nahua."

Gregory
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03.12.2012 | 11:19 AM ET

Just because someone is a black belt on this site does not mean they get special argument privileges. That's crazy.

And yes my rankings are out of date.


Boetsch looked far from impressive in managing to come back against Okami. It's hard to argue that based on what we saw from him in that fight, that he'll be a contender in the division. What it does is make it really difficult to determine where to rank these fighters. 

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Bigj383
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03.12.2012 | 11:20 AM ET

I agree boetsch should be above okami but okami needs to drop way more than just 1 or 2 spots

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logan48227
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03.12.2012 | 11:22 AM ET

@kaono: You're about to make me do the unthinkable....defend Michael Bisping. 

Bisping has already beaten Leben, who is in your Top Ten. Furthermore, Bisping definitely deserves to be in your Top Ten more than Nate Marquardt if you consider the fact that Marquardt's not even a Middleweight anymore. Marquardt's next fight is against Tyron Woodley for Strikeforce's vacant Welterweight title.

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yorma
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03.12.2012 | 11:27 AM ET

@Greg

"Just because someone is a black belt on this site does not mean they get special argument privileges. That's crazy"
Love that..

"And whats up with y'all, Looking at me like a monkey, You !?! Yeah right, You're all saints, You !! Bunch of macaques !! Gimme a baby monkey, He'll be .. Wonderfull"

kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 11:27 AM ET

Good point on Marquardt.  I had him off of the rankings for a while, but brought him back on for some reason that I can't remember.  EDIT: Just remembered, I wanted to rank him somewhere, but I could only rank him at MW.  :/  And yeah, I knew about him moving to WW in Strikeforce.  Hope he smashes Woodley.

And yes, Bisping defeated Leben.  But then again, Wanderlei Silva defeated Bisping after that...  Then Leben beat Wanderlei Silva after that.  If timing means anything, it shouldn't be too difficult to understand my placement of Leben over Wandy and Bisping.

That's just my opinion for my personal rankings though, I totally understand how others have it differently in this case given Bisping's recent showings.

* Edited at 03.12.2012, 11:28 AM ET *

"E momole aku ana i Keka‘a ka ua nahua."

logan48227
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03.12.2012 | 11:36 AM ET

You have a valid point about the loss to Wanderlei. I understand why you would have Leben above him under your criteria, but Bisping has too long of a track record not to be in your top 10 at all. Just replace him for Marquardt & it fits.

"You have respect, you don't lose your teeth"

kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 11:40 AM ET

Yepp, I took out Marquardt and bumped Lombard down.  Bisping top 10!

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yorma
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03.12.2012 | 11:43 AM ET

@kao do u really think Boetsch is before Munoz, Stann and Bisping???

Posted a comment on ur profil too, thankxx to follow ;)

"And whats up with y'all, Looking at me like a monkey, You !?! Yeah right, You're all saints, You !! Bunch of macaques !! Gimme a baby monkey, He'll be .. Wonderfull"

kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 11:49 AM ET

Rankings-wise, I don't think a fighter should be penalized in ranking if they lose to someone undefeated in their division (thus, Boetsch simply took Okami's spot and bumped everyone else down due to being an undefeated MW prospect).  If say, Boetsch had lost to Munoz first and then beat Okami, I would have it Munoz, Boetsch, Okami.

But if Boetsch were to fight Munoz, I'd definitely take Munoz, as he has the style advantage going for him.  I'd give Boetsch the nod against Stann, but not against Bisping.

&yupp np

* Edited at 03.12.2012, 11:49 AM ET *

"E momole aku ana i Keka‘a ka ua nahua."

MikeLovesTacos XD
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03.12.2012 | 12:25 PM ET

I havent edited my list for like 6 months, so bare with me. Dont mind my list, but the fact on your UPDATED list you have Stann, Wanderlei, and Leben ahead of of Bisping is crazy. Go look on my top 10 fav's all 4 of those guys are on there so it isnt a dislike thing, but come on. 

"Why are you booing me? I am the GOAT. **** you." - Patricio "Pitbull" Freire

kaonohiokala
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03.12.2012 | 12:34 PM ET

^Everything you just mentioned has been covered in previous posts.

"E momole aku ana i Keka‘a ka ua nahua."

themysticalninja
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03.12.2012 | 2:42 PM ET

Sometimes the "He beat him so he should rank higher" argument dosen't hold water for various reasons.

Lets look at how Okami and Munoz have fared since they fought each other -
Okami - 1 Win (Nate Marquardt), 2 Losses (Silva, Bosetch)
Munoz - 4 Wins (Aaron Simpson, C.B. Dollaway, Demian Maia, Chris Leben)

For Okami, beating Marquardt is impressive and losing to Silva shouldn't have seen move down the rankings much, however, the Bosetch loss pretty much dropped Okami's ranking stock a lot.
For Munoz, Simpson and Dollaway may not mean much, but Maia is a once top ten and still considered by many a top 15. and Leben is a solid win.

I put Munoz at #3 because after Sonnen, he's been the most consistant MW in UFC at the moment (Belfort needs a bigger win to go higher).

EDIT: I know I'm late to the party. I had this opened up, typed half, went to sleep and decided I wanted to finish it :D

* Edited at 03.12.2012, 2:46 PM ET *

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Yaspaa
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03.12.2012 | 3:59 PM ET

Kao, Boetsch above Bisping is crazy, you're very biased for some reason, is he your dad?

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