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Ranking discussion

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Idrownfish
Idrownfish
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09.13.2013 | 12:36 AM ET

Exactly what it says on the tin.

* Edited at 09.13.2013, 12:37 AM ET *

"Let's just say if we fought again I wouldn't need to keep my hands up." - Luke Rockhold on Michael Bisping's punching power

Responses

gunn4206
gunn4206
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09.13.2013 | 12:45 AM ET

@idrownfish Your List is Hilarious .

* Edited at 09.13.2013, 12:46 AM ET *

"RIP Bill Burgess , RIP CthuluJones"

Idrownfish
Idrownfish
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09.13.2013 | 2:03 AM ET

I don't get it. Every one of those guys have very fluid and agressive guards. Almost all of them pull (in some cases, jump) guard very frequently, and are very comfortable off their backs. All of them have pulled off multiple submissions and beautiful sweeps from guard.

* Edited at 09.13.2013, 2:08 AM ET *

"Let's just say if we fought again I wouldn't need to keep my hands up." - Luke Rockhold on Michael Bisping's punching power

Idrownfish
Idrownfish
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09.13.2013 | 2:12 AM ET

Some of those fighters aren't quite UFC level, but does it matter?

"Let's just say if we fought again I wouldn't need to keep my hands up." - Luke Rockhold on Michael Bisping's punching power

Idrownfish
Idrownfish
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09.15.2013 | 7:41 PM ET

I mean, their guards are. Lol.

"Let's just say if we fought again I wouldn't need to keep my hands up." - Luke Rockhold on Michael Bisping's punching power

Franklin880088
Franklin880088
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09.15.2013 | 9:22 PM ET

If were talking strictly MMA. i personally think Calros Condit has one of the best guards in MMA history. He attacks constantly with strikes/submissions/sweeps. He also takes minimal damage. 

"here I come to save the day"

Nomad
Nomad
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09.15.2013 | 9:36 PM ET

@Franklin, I personally think Condit's guard needs sharpening up to the say the least actually. He wasn't able to threaten Johny or GSP with a submission nor able to sweep either. While I actually thought Condit should of gotten the decision over Hendricks like Nick said. 

Condit has 13 submission wins 5 Armbars, 3 rear naked chokes, 2 Triangles, 1 Kimura, 1 arm triangle, 1 guillotine. With this said he hasn't land a submission in his last 10 fights despite spending time on his back in every single one of these fights besides Hardy. 

I think Condit's guard needs to improve before he gets another title shot as do I think his ability to move lateral and angle better with his kicks. The two biggest flaws in Condit's game besides "takedown defense bro". Is he needs to tighten up his submission game and attack with more than elbows off his back ( aka sweeps, submissions, create scrambles to get to feet or find the back ) and to be able to angle his strikes better ( especially for his kicks sake ) if you notice Condit lands kicks often but usually isn't really hurting guys with them. He has awkward but effective leg strikes, still if you look at Hug or Zaromski's as good examples to make their kicks more devastating they had to adapt their movement an angles for their styles because moving like a thai guy or a kickboxer isn't ideal for them, same can be said for Condit he has a different powerzone in his leg strikes but he neglects finding it often in his fights, lateral movement and slightly different angles can help this, also lateral movement so he can't get rushed into the cage then taken down ( Aka Hendricks did to him over an over ).

"If I have a goal, then it is to escape from this literalism. I'll never achieve it; in the same way that I'll never manage to describe what really dwells within my character, although I keep on trying."

Anik
Anik
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09.15.2013 | 9:39 PM ET

If we're talking strictly MMA I would say that Carlos Condit has one of, if not the best guard ever. Why? Because he is the only fighter I've ever seen who consistently scores points whenever he's on his back. He isn't perfect in technique and he'd be easily submitted in a jiu-jitsu contest by a solid jiu-jitsu guy but in an MMA fight, Condit's guard isn't a good time for anyone.

Seriously, he is the only fighter that consistently does as much or more damage on his back than his opponent on top of him. Did you see what he ******* did to Johny Hendricks?

Again, don't get me wrong Condit would get submitted by a bunch of the guys on Idrownfish's list. But if you look at it from a judge's perspective, no fighter scores more points from their guard than Condit.

* Edited at 09.15.2013, 9:42 PM ET *

"الله أكبرl"

nogfan
nogfan
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09.15.2013 | 9:41 PM ET

Nomad johny and GSP have extremely strong top control stemming from their wrestling.  Keeping GSP in closed guard is rather hard in and of itself.  also have you not watched his fight with Dong Hyun Kim because i think Carlos Condit has plenty of sweeps and in fact has a pretty good butterfly guard. Also his takedown defense looked much better in his last fight due to him working with Jake Herbert on wrestling. 

* Edited at 09.15.2013, 9:46 PM ET *

Anik
Anik
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09.15.2013 | 9:45 PM ET

I don't get why you guys keep bringing up Johny Hendricks...Hendricks' decorated accolades couldn't keep Condit on the ground. Hendricks' supposed amazing top position failed against Carlos Condit who hurt him whenever they got to the ground. Condit ****** Hendricks up on the ground literally every single time he was taken down. Condit arguably won a fight where he was taken down 15 times and he almost completely outclassed Johny Hendricks in the final round, where he was taken down another 5 times.

Also I find it funny how Nomad brings up Condit not being able to sweep or threaten Georges St-Pierre. Who can? GSP is arguably the greatest grappler in the history of the welterweight division and there's a reason why; good luck trying to control GSP off your back, let alone threaten a submission.

* Edited at 09.15.2013, 9:47 PM ET *

"الله أكبرl"

Nomad
Nomad
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09.15.2013 | 9:56 PM ET

I said Condit couldn't sweep Johny or GSP not that he couldn't sweep Kim...What the ****? I agree Condit has an amazing guard but are we going to vote me down for logic now? He obviously fails to do significant damage with his kicks for the reasons I mentioned and his takedown defense lacks for 1 major reason besides the obvious(being he's lanky with a high center of gravity and doesn't base himself in any takedown oriented arts), he moves straight back and gets trapped against the cage. Okay, in his last 10 fights has he scored 1 submission? No. In those fights he was on his back and on the ground a lot. So clearly his ability to attack with submissions off his back needs tightening up or improving on at that. Also, he wasn't able to threaten with 1 submission or sweep against GSP or Johny, the 1 and 2 in the division so if he wants the title maybe he wants to change that..huh? As we can tell how MMA scores the guard, being active with strikes isn't going to be enough most of the time unfortunately. Again I thought Condit deserved the decision vs Johny.

...Read, breath then respond.

* Edited at 09.15.2013, 10:02 PM ET *

"If I have a goal, then it is to escape from this literalism. I'll never achieve it; in the same way that I'll never manage to describe what really dwells within my character, although I keep on trying."

Nomad
Nomad
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09.15.2013 | 10:13 PM ET

Anik...Bro Condit is fighting to be a champion, you know? If he can't threaten GSP off his back he's sort of ****** with that whole winning a title thing. Obviously Condit expects that of himself, to be able to hurt GSP off his back, submit GSP off his back, sweep GSP ect ect. Because you don't is one thing, who cares about Johny's accolades or GSP's genius grappling that's all nice but arbitrary. If Condit can't find answers for these things what is he going to do vs Maia, Johny, GSP? Losing isn't an option for him, he has to win. This is constructive criticism. No need to White Knight Condit, I bet he agrees with what I am saying an is training on a lot of these things to prepare for the next time he faces either man.

"If I have a goal, then it is to escape from this literalism. I'll never achieve it; in the same way that I'll never manage to describe what really dwells within my character, although I keep on trying."

Anik
Anik
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09.15.2013 | 10:51 PM ET

Everything you're saying is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Carlos Condit's guard is the topic and whether or not he can threaten GSP is irrelevant because I believe that no one at 170 could threaten GSP off their back, even Demian Maia.

Right now you're saying that Carlos Condit can't threaten GSP off his back so he can't become a champion. What the **** does that have to do with literally anything in this thread? You're talking about Condit's leg kicks, his propensity to back up in straight lines when he fights and his mediocre takedown defense...again what the **** does that have to do with Carlos Condit's guard? And when you do finally talk about his guard, you talk about how he couldn't threaten Johny Hendricks or GSP. The former is a total load of **** because Johny Hendricks was safer standing up in thay fight than he was on the ground because of the Condit-level beating he was giving Hendricks and the latter is irrelevant because GSP is an anomaly.

I also find it funny how basic of an analysis you're giving. You're saying that because of Condit's lack of submission wins, he's not a good grappler. That...is a load of basic stupid ****. I'm not even gonna elaborate on that, that was a stupid comment and you should apologize to the readers in this thread.

The question posed (read between the lines) was if Carlos Condit has the best guard in MMA. You have failed to adequately respond to that question.

"الله أكبرl"

zarog
zarog
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09.15.2013 | 11:01 PM ET

My response to this entire thread is right here, even though it has nothing to do with guards >>>>>

"Surrender??!! You think this letter on my head stands for France?" - Captain America

Nomad
Nomad
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09.15.2013 | 11:23 PM ET

If my post has nothing to do with then thread why comment on it when it was directed at someone specifically for the sake of conversation ( not you) ? You comment on my ****, we argue then you say "wrong thread" when I make points, Great. 

"If I have a goal, then it is to escape from this literalism. I'll never achieve it; in the same way that I'll never manage to describe what really dwells within my character, although I keep on trying."

Nomad
Nomad
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09.15.2013 | 11:24 PM ET

Also I said Condit is a great grappler, that's not in the least what I eluded to about stating his lack of submission wins as of late. You really aren't grasping the  points of my posts man....

"If I have a goal, then it is to escape from this literalism. I'll never achieve it; in the same way that I'll never manage to describe what really dwells within my character, although I keep on trying."

skelliher
skelliher
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09.16.2013 | 12:26 AM ET

Beware, Nomad. Lest you get Anik'd haha.

And Anik ... don't call people's opinions stupid bro. Just Helax.

"When a game cannot be won, change the game."

Nomad
Nomad
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09.16.2013 | 12:27 AM ET

@Skelliher, don't worry I can handle a french canadian.

"If I have a goal, then it is to escape from this literalism. I'll never achieve it; in the same way that I'll never manage to describe what really dwells within my character, although I keep on trying."

Idrownfish
Idrownfish
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09.16.2013 | 1:00 AM ET

Well, I guess I forgot about Condit. I will include him in my list. 

I agree with Anik: his guard is the very definition of what I want to see ranked here. He is incredibly active off his back, does a lot of damage, and his sweeps are very good (although they tend to be useless since he is better off his back than on top). Also, seeing Jonny Hendricks get ****** up from the top position was pretty funny.

* Edited at 09.16.2013, 1:03 AM ET *

"Let's just say if we fought again I wouldn't need to keep my hands up." - Luke Rockhold on Michael Bisping's punching power

zarog
zarog
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09.16.2013 | 1:09 AM ET

Miguel Torres in his heyday? Anyone? Dude's guard was one of the most exciting in the game for a while. (BTW, anyone know what happened to Torres? Did he retire or just take a hiatus from fighting after the Moraes beatdown?)

"Surrender??!! You think this letter on my head stands for France?" - Captain America

Nomad
Nomad
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09.16.2013 | 1:14 AM ET

Torres guard was slick vs Mighty Mouse, I thought Torres won that fight, am I the only one?

"If I have a goal, then it is to escape from this literalism. I'll never achieve it; in the same way that I'll never manage to describe what really dwells within my character, although I keep on trying."


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