Russian invasion of Ukraine thread.

I'll post what's happening as it comes through for purposes of posterity. Doubt the veracity of what is posted here. Having lived through the Iraq war, I am sure that the vast majority of what gets reported will turn out to be either misinformation or outright ********. Posting because a lot of non-Australia members will be asleep, now. I'll report as much as I can.

So far the g****vine is:

Russia has indeed embarked on a full scale invasion of Ukraine. Air attacks, and ground forces. There has been at least one missile strike, there have been front-line Ukranian casualities ( have seen video, cannot post it here, too graphic).

Footage of an airstrike hitting Lutsk:

https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/1496721271907889155?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1496721271907889155%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpatriots.win%2Fnew


Belarus has thrown in with Russia/is issuing support.
Reports of Ukrainian air defence having shot down multiple Russian planes, either drones or fighters. 


Some other info:

* Edited at 02.24.2022, 1:29 AM ET *

@snake attack the arguments, not the person.

@Baldric to be fair you literally attack every person, who try to make a argument.

Pot meet Kettle

I give back what I get.

I don't go looking for trouble. But don't expect me to bend over for it without pushback....wait, what....I'm not a power bottom...Fishy didn't really think that one through....

So far nobody has been able to refute anything I've posted in this thread. Not with evidence, anyway. Primary evidence.

For example, it's not possible to deny that what was happening in the clips I have posted isn't true. It is true that Russia has taken over Mariupol, and that Astoval bastion was destroyed, and that Ukrainian forces were using illegal weaponry. At least, it is a fact that there is footage detailing those things. It is also true that the DPR has been handing out supplies and aid to the people of Mariupol. The fact that that post got downvoted is quite funny though I admit. People are downvoting starving kids getting food, which I find funnier than I probably should. Those are just facts. They exist, and remain true, regardless of whatever people think about them, in the same way that it is a fact that Ukranian-backed forces destroyed a highly valued Russian warship.

I think it's time for the people in this thread to put up or shut up. I'm not interested in opinions or conjecture. I want to see some evidence.

Edit: If partisan brainlets like checklefthook are the future of the world, it doesn't exist.

* Edited at 04.19.2022, 6:24 PM ET *

I don't see people arguing with the scientologist and flat earther who set up post on the corner by the University where I live. Doesn't mean their right either. Nobody just wants a conversation with them anymore. 

Those people are cranks. They don't have evidence. We're dealing with reality, not fantasy.

I do have evidence. I have provided it. It's your job to disqualify or rebuke it somehow with evidence of your own.

Edit: You literally just railed against me coming across as not being willing to entertain the possibility of anything being true. Pot meet kettle?

* Edited at 04.19.2022, 6:27 PM ET *

If we posted a video of Putin ****ting on a Ukrainian child, you would just say it was insignificant 😆

Ever think people want rational conversations with others who are not so close minded and not dug in deep

No, I wouldn't. If it was authentic, I would accept it as true. And Fisty would masturbate to it.

Here's what I think: I'm dealing with people who have very poor critical reasoning and evaluation skills who get their information, mostly propaganda, from Google and MSM which is pushing a version of reality that aligns with the interests of the US state without contrasting it against other evidence, because they are intellectually lazy and simply not very intelligent.

And you're still excusing yourself without having made a case. That's not how debates work.

* Edited at 04.19.2022, 6:34 PM ET *

It's good that you expressed yourself 🤠

Angry people, drunks and children always say the truth. Especially the 😡😡😡😡


Now that we got a self projection I was looking for. 👽👽👽👽

This is what I mean chris. Do you really want to engage in a debate that leads to the truth, or do you simply want to be right, or to win? Because neither of those things is on the cards right now. I don't even think you really even understand what my argument is. Resorting to character assassination does not help your case. That downvote button doesn't help your case. The only thing that will help your case is evidence, which up to this point, you have no provided.  Apoplexy emojis are not evidence.

* Edited at 04.19.2022, 6:42 PM ET *

I will even give you another example of a common fallacy:

Man, don't spread around Gonzalo Lira's stuff. He's a former scammer, Manosphere youtuber (Coach Red Pill was his alias) and just all-around ******.

Prior to the war he was putting toothpicks with glue/gum on keyholes and **** as an act of "anarchy", and encouraged his fanbase to move to Ukraine and do the same. He's an idiot.


This is referred to as post hoc ergo propter hoc. It means 'after this because of this'. Snake is suggesting that because Lira allegedly did the things he has suggested (not all are alleged, some are exactly as he has described) or was involved in those things, therefore his observations and critique of the Ukrainian regime is baseless and should be disregarded out of hand. He has no disqualified nor rebuked Liras assertions on their merits or lack thereof using logic and evidence, but has rather dismissed them on the basis of previous actions that are unrelated and not germane to the subject at hand and to which the context of Lira's reporting is confined, relevant to this discussion.


Snake may in fact be right. It may be true that Lira is a Russian spy, or an imbecile. But nothing about Lira's previous work can be used to denote this on the subject of the war in Ukraine.

Let's do a Hypothetical:

Mike Tyson did a public speaking event at night.
Mike Tyson was convicted of ****.
The night Mike Tyson did his speech, a woman was ****d in the car park.
Therefore Mike Tyson ****d the woman.


Obviously, this is fallacious reasoning. But what snake has done is the same thing. 

* Edited at 04.19.2022, 7:02 PM ET *

But your asking the impossible. And that is have a conversation with a individual, who's very existence is that the West is evil and any contraction to that harms the very fabrict of your reality and causes pain, who is extremely closed minded and accepts no evidence, even by your sources and methods while downplaying every significant argument the other makes. And your upset that people on a MMA forum won't engage with your argument with your laundry list of rules...good luck with that mate.

To counter your next sentence, no I am not gonna start digging for sources and material and show you anything. 

Just one answer is I want. Was this whole war worth it. All the dead Russians and Ukrainians. All the dead civilians who had nothing to do with this. The women, the children. The tortured, the ****d. On both sides. The death, destruction and chaos. Was all of this justified?

Was Russia justified in this starting this war?

I don't know why you're under the delusion that...what, really have a dog in this fight. It's not my country that's at war. I don't think the West is evil. Far from it. Everything that's great about civilisation as you know and understand it comes out of the West. The west is all we have. Virtually that everywhere that isn't the west lives in a perpetual condition of squalid irrationality, poverty, ignorance, violence, depravity and absurdity. In fact I want nothing more than the preservation of western values, and culture. Post-enlightenment values, that is.

What I don't like is the West manipulating the autonomy of other nations and spending tax money intervening in regions of the world that do not benefit the people of the west in any way whatsoever, but actually harm them. I'll say it again; the state doesn't have any money. It has your money. There are people, functions and things that require the money spent on pointless wars that nobody voted for--either to support directly or by proxy.

Even if Ukraine does 'win', absolutely nothing, nothing whatsoever about that victory will benefit you or anyone in Europe in any way whatsoever. Even if that does happen, your life, your kid's lives, and your yeomen's lives will be made worse. That will also be true if Russia wins. The difference is, the latter is only true because of the conditions imposed on Russia by the West.

You don't win. Nobody you know nor care about wins. The only people who win are those empty suits who turn up to spout lies and platitudes in the amphitheatres mostly at the behest of their masters--sorry, lobbyists.

That's how it is.

The war in Ukraine by proxy does not help preserve the west. It accelerates its erosion. 

* Edited at 04.19.2022, 11:09 PM ET *

Since you ask, I will answer: Russia didn't start this war.

The war was started by the Ukrainian regime which was installed via a US-backed coup. That same regime has been killing the people of Crimea and Donbas for a decade. They have been resource-starving them. They dammed off their water. That regime has killed at least, 13000 people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alley_of_Angels

The reason? That part of Ukraine identifies as Russian. They want to be absorbed into Russia. They see the Russians as liberators. This entire fiasco could have been avoided through a negotiation which allowed those people to do just that, but that isn't what the US wants.


American people are not the US state. If you took a sample of 1000 random Americans, and asked them if they would prefer to have the money devoted to Ukraine or spent domestically on public services, or themselves, you might--might, get two of that number vying for those monies to go to Ukraine.


Do you really think that the US state actually gives a solitary **** about the people of Ukraine or the US? That they are defending 'Democracy'? Or is it more likely by far that it simply doesn't want Russia to expand its boundaries and appropriate the resources of that region for their own purposes and economy--especially given the amount of money both clean and dirty invested there? 

But we're getting ahead of ourselves; nobody gave NATO carte blanch to do whatever it likes and shape world geopolitics for all time. Nobody gave the US state arbitrary power to function as the world police. Ukraine realistically should have absolutely nothing to do with the US, and nobody in American should give a **** about it one way or another. When has Russia attacked the US, by the way?


Did you vote for a proxy war with Russia? Did any American? Did you vote to go to war in Iraq, Afghanistan?It's the same ****. All that money, Chris. Trillions and trillions of dollars. Imagine for a moment. Think what it could have done, what it could be doing, if those resources were spent internally and not on politician's wars.

And they're still spending it. Zelensky says he's willing to fight for ten ******* years while Ukraine is running up a deficit of 5 billion a month. Where's the money coming from? You. And the people of Europe. Meanwhile inflation explodes as a direct consequence of an intervention nobody voted for and doesn't want--or wouldn't if they actually understood how bad it is and will **** them over.

It's madness. Sheer, unadulterated madness. Why the **** do people keep rallying against their own interests, their own people, their own quality of life?

* Edited at 04.19.2022, 7:46 PM ET *

Since you wont answer the question. I knew you wouldn't. ill reword it.

Was is worth Russia Marching their military into Ukraine territory, resulting in 10s of thousands of deaths on both sides?

I don't know. It's not my job to know. How is that even quantifiable? What Russia does or doesn't do in its own backyard isn't my concern. I don't care. You shouldn't care either. It's obviously worth it to Russia. Until Russia attacks or invades Australia, the US, or non-eastern, non-former-soviet Europe it's none of my business. I do not believe in stirring pots that aren't boiling for me, and I believe that nations shouldn't do that either. My only interest is in the west not getting involved because it does not benefit the people of the west, and it will lead to no positive result for the people of the west. Whether Russia is or isn't justified is irrelevant to me.

I'm not interested in the morality of it. That's what you seem to be concerned with--morality, is that it? Right this second there are immoral military actions being taken in hundreds of places all over the world. There is all kinds of death and carnage and destruction that happens everywhere, all the time. The Ukranian-Russian conflict is mild by the standards of it all, if anything. I'm not interested in any of it unless it's happening in the West. The next time you go Taco Bell, think about the fact you're eating some unhealthy **** at inflated cost while some Ethiopian child is dying of starvation in the dirt. You could send that child the taco bell money. You choose not to. Because you don't care. You don't care because it's not in your sphere of experience and influence. Every time you do that, you are choosing your comfort over the life of another human being.

We all do it. In myriad ways, every day.

* Edited at 04.19.2022, 8:10 PM ET *

@Baldric Eggling

"What Russia does or doesn't do in its own backyard isn't my concern. I don't care. You shouldn't care either. It's obviously worth it to Russia. Until Russia attacks or invades Australia, the US, or non-eastern, non-former-soviet Europe it's none of my business."


I'm just saying that for someone who doesn't care, you sure seem heavily invested in it. 

@Steve the problem is people are thinking that I'm championing Russia for some reason. I'm not. The point I am trying to make, and have been the entire time, is that Ukraine is not winning and that this is proving disastrously expensive, futile and pointless for everybody in the West. Russia is not going to pull out at this point. They are too heavily invested, and they are doing too well despite what Western media is reporting. The Ukrainian regime is not morally superior to Russia's. They're both authoritarian garbage.  My only goal is to try and give people the facts, so that they can figure this all out for themselves. Enough. Enough of the destruction of the West via wars which do not benefit western populations, do not have the consent of those populations, and dramatically decay the quality of their lives.

It is not the job of the west to bail out every other nation and their people. That is their responsibility.

* Edited at 04.19.2022, 11:04 PM ET *