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Russian invasion of Ukraine thread.

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Baldric Eggling
Baldric Eggling

02.24.2022 | 1:13 AM ET

I'll post what's happening as it comes through for purposes of posterity. Doubt the veracity of what is posted here. Having lived through the Iraq war, I am sure that the vast majority of what gets reported will turn out to be either misinformation or outright ********. Posting because a lot of non-Australia members will be asleep, now. I'll report as much as I can.

So far the g****vine is:

Russia has indeed embarked on a full scale invasion of Ukraine. Air attacks, and ground forces. There has been at least one missile strike, there have been front-line Ukranian casualities ( have seen video, cannot post it here, too graphic).

Footage of an airstrike hitting Lutsk:

https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/1496721271907889155?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1496721271907889155%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpatriots.win%2Fnew


Belarus has thrown in with Russia/is issuing support.
Reports of Ukrainian air defence having shot down multiple Russian planes, either drones or fighters. 


Some other info:



* Edited at 02.24.2022, 1:29 AM ET *

Responses Page 40

Fremen
Fremen
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04.17.2022 | 1:39 PM ET

doesnt change the fact that the old guy is a professional attention seeker for some reason 

* Edited at 04.17.2022, 1:40 PM ET *

"****."

Fremen
Fremen
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04.17.2022 | 1:41 PM ET

my point was that this thread was starting to look like a battle of arguments about whos worse rather than a source of valuable information

"****."

CheckLeftHook
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04.17.2022 | 2:14 PM ET

this thread was a lost cause at like page 2. the fact that the mods let it stay up is pretty wild, especially after fishrat was told to go to his own private group or whatever

"🏴 No Quarter Given 🏴"

Baldric Eggling
Baldric Eggling

04.17.2022 | 2:15 PM ET

@Chris what's happening is a war. It's not 'genocide'. That's a totally different kettle of beans. Russia isn't rounding up Ukrainians and mass-exterminating them like the Nazis did the Jews and Gypsies in WW2 on a racial and cultural basis. They are not targeting civilians. Civilians deaths are simply collateral damage.  Russia has no objective to wipe out Ukrainian people, but rather to wipe out the Ukrainian state.

I know that Western media isn't reporting it, but Russia is also sending and delivering humanitarian aid.  
Xconchris
Xconchris
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04.17.2022 | 2:20 PM ET

Holy hell you believe that Baldric?? 😂

Your literally lost at this point.

Kidnapping thousands of people to Russia. Including children against their will

Raping women and children. Mass executions of civilians. By rounding then up. Targeting apartments with no military anywhere nearby.

They literally said in the Russian news thier objective is to wipe it out the Ukrainian people

Also these videos and reports done by actual people on the ground with video and picture evidence. The exact sources you claim you only listen too.

So Russia admits it and there's evidence 

Stubborn is one thing. ******** is another

"Dont take life too serious, you will never make it out alive."

Xconchris
Xconchris
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04.17.2022 | 2:22 PM ET

Next your gonna tell me the Moskva didn't sink and Ukraine attacked Moscow first

"Dont take life too serious, you will never make it out alive."

Xconchris
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04.17.2022 | 2:27 PM ET

I found the humanitarian aid 


"Dont take life too serious, you will never make it out alive."

Xconchris
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04.17.2022 | 2:34 PM ET

Or we just gonna argue semantics for hours for nthe definition of genocide. And who wrote the definition in what time period



"Dont take life too serious, you will never make it out alive."

Baldric Eggling
Baldric Eggling

04.17.2022 | 2:50 PM ET

lol chris, it's not semantics. I don't think you really understand what genocide means. When NAZIS went into Eastern Europe to round up Gypsies--and I will focus on them because nobody ever does and because they very nearly were genocided, about 89% of all Romani were destroyed during WW2--they were rounded up on the basis of ethnicity, and forced into kind of makeshift tents that were retrofitted so as allow vehicles to back up to them, insert exhaust pipes, and pump carbon monoxide inside. This was a cheap, and efficient form of mass extermination.

That is what genocide looks like.

Russia is not 'kidnapping' people. Those people are for the larger part going begrudgingly or willingly, because their homes have been destroyed. They have nowhere else to go. That is not the same thing as when the NAZIS went scouring Europe and ripping up floorboards looking for Jews to have shovel snow and starve to death in concentration camps.

Groups like azov battalion are monstrously evil chris. Whether you want to believe that or not. They are and have been using civilian areas to conduct war ops and to house military assets, knowing that the DPR will have to fire on them, knowing that this will result in civilian casualties.  I've seen it. They are doing this to gin up support for NATO intervention on the basis of human rights violations. I could show you hours of footage of actual Ukrainians describing this, but you would simply disregard it. Not just from Russian sources either, but from independent media outlets.

The Ukrainian regime is not....good. It is both brutal and corrupt. As I have always said, there is no good side in all this.Some Ukrainians see the DPR as liberators, some as tyrants--all of them would rather be experiencing just about anything else in the world.

Is it genocide when the US inadvertently kills thousands of women and children in Iraq, Afghanistan? Because that's no different. War is hell. Innocent people die. But it doesn't constitute genocide. That term is reserved for a very particular and specific type of horror.
Xconchris
Xconchris
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04.17.2022 | 2:59 PM ET

So rounding up Gypsies and killing them based on Ethnicity is different then rounding up

Ukrainians, because Russian believe they are not human and are ethnically different, and killing them is different?

They are literally executing Ukrainians in these small villages because they are, In the Eyes of Russians, different. You can argue if they are actually different or no. The Russians believe they are different and killing them for that belief. That is the same thing as killing Gypsies. No difference if its done by gas or bullet to the back of the head. When you have piles of Ukrainians in villages, killed execution style because the Russians believed they were different. Thats Genocide, case closed.

Also taking people against their will to Russia is Kidnapping. Having nowhere else to go and forcibly taken to Russia is still kidnapping. No matter how you try to sugar coat it.

And are we gonna play the Whataboutism game talking about Iraq and Afghanistan.

But what about Syria
But what about Chechnya


Playing what about other things is just a poor distraction from a weak argument.

This is genocide in every form and definition you can try with picture and video evidence

"Dont take life too serious, you will never make it out alive."

Rossco1277
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04.17.2022 | 3:06 PM ET

flying mince

"Any Bloody Fool Can Pull a Trigger"

Baldric Eggling
Baldric Eggling

04.17.2022 | 3:16 PM ET

Russians don't believe Ukranians are ethnically different, and that's because they're not. There is ostensibly no genetic difference between a Russian and a Ukrainian. Most people in Kyiv speak Russian, Ukraine was not so long ago part of Russia.

It isn't the same thing as the genocide of the Romani. It's absolutely nothing like it. Ukrainians are not being rounded up and exterminated. There are no concentration camps. You don't see Ukrainians walking around in Ghettos with yellow stars slapped on their breasts, do you?

You've fallen for the propaganda, and if I had to guess, I bet you've been spending time on that absolute cesspit of an echo-chamber that is reddit. You sound exactly like the hysterical children that infest r/politics. It's Russia that's trying to negotiate. All they really want is Donbass and Crimea--the populations of which want to become part of Russia, and identify as Russian. Zelensky won't have it. That's why this war continues. The entire ****show could end instantly if the US and Zelensky would simply hand over the territory Russia wants, and stops threatening to join NATO. The reason the people of Donbass want to join Russia is because the Ukrainian regime has been bombing and shelling them for eight years, and dammed off their water supply.They have killed over 13K people. They are doing this because these people identify as Russian. Does that meet your definition of genocide? Because it certainly sounds like it does to me.

This is a pretty standard war, really. Right now the US is not intervening in actual genocides like the continued extermination of Ugyur Muslims in China, or the extermination of Darfuri people in Sudan--which has been happening since 2003. Those are actual genocides. Yet US pundits are trying to frame that what is happening in Ukraine is a genocide when it objectively isn't that. Well, pull-ups Joe is anyway, when he can remember what he's meant to be talking about. But not even his cabinet agrees with him. Not even the Washington Post will go as far as to describe it as a genocide.

The Russians are doing exactly what they did in Syria, Chechnya, and Afghanistan. Nobody described those actions as 'genocide'. What's changed? I'll tell you:

Ukraine is a laundromat for Oligarchs and EU and US politicians, and their kids--including your current president and his son. It's a giant slush fund where taxation is funnelled by such people back to themselves in the form of investments and bribes. This is not a secret, and it is also why Ukraine has long been regarded as the most corrupt country in Europe for many years, and the third most corrupt country in the world.

That's really how it is. Now, I'm not going to say that Russia is liberating the people from the cabal--they are in one sense, but that's only true in the way that you can't light a street for rich people without lighting it for the poor also, and their motivations for war are entirely selfish. But do I personally mourn the destruction of the regime? **** no. It's as bad as Russia's. Worse, if anything. 

* Edited at 04.17.2022, 3:30 PM ET *

Xconchris
Xconchris
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04.17.2022 | 3:32 PM ET

Jesus, I don't know where to begin or end 😆

Whenever I used to argue with a conspiracy theorist. They always did the same thing Baldric does. Change the subject multiple multiple times and try to tie it back in to the begining argument.
 
But what about China
But what about the corrupt government

So it's okay what their doing. 

You just tend to glance over the mass killings of civilians. But since their is no difference genetically it's not genocide.

You do understand, and take your time and think about this.
You don't need literal concentration camps, with yellow stars and gas chambers to also be a genocide?

You look for the smallest details to dismiss mass.murder, **** and torture. 

Hey everyone look, they are not literally doing what the Nazis did in the 40s so this is no genocide.

You do realize their are different forms of genocide right? You dont need a physical gas chambers and a bunch of German guys marching to be a genocide. Simply destroying the Ukrainian population and killing them with bullets **** and torture is also genocide  ?

"Dont take life too serious, you will never make it out alive."

Baldric Eggling
Baldric Eggling

04.17.2022 | 3:35 PM ET

There are not 'different forms of genocide'. Genocide means what it means. It is a term that describes a particular phenomenon, and it says what it says and it doesn't say what it doesn't say. It's no more subject to linguistic relativity than the term 'blacksmithing'. It's not a concept, and no amount of sapir-whorfism will make it one. What we're seeing in Ukraine isn't genocide. It's a refugee crisis. If it wasn't....well, there probably wouldn't be any.

There is no mass extermination of Ukrainians. That isn't happening.

* Edited at 04.17.2022, 3:39 PM ET *

Hadrian Caesar
Hadrian Caesar
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04.17.2022 | 3:36 PM ET

Genocide is defined as the systematic killing of a nationality or ethnic group in large groups. What Russia is doing isn't a genocide. They've undoubtedly committed war crimes but i don't know why everything has to be declared a genocide when it isn't. Unless there is evidence that Russia is purposely targeting Ukrainian civilians because they are Ukrainian than it isn't genocide. It's just war, terrible as it is. 

"Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once." - Julius Caesar.

Xconchris
Xconchris
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04.17.2022 | 3:40 PM ET

nah, he dont believe its war crimes either. Just false flags lol

"Dont take life too serious, you will never make it out alive."

Baldric Eggling
Baldric Eggling

04.17.2022 | 3:43 PM ET

@Chris I believe it's both. The Ukrainian regime is committing war crimes, the Russians are committing war crimes. It's a war. They are a feature of every war.  But yes, I know, for a fact, and for a 100% certainty, that the Ukrainian forces are doing exactly what I say they have been. I don't think. I know.
Baldric Eggling
Baldric Eggling

04.17.2022 | 3:59 PM ET

To wit:

https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/mariupol-plant-surrender:c?r=AxdrMy6gJntPpcw3C8twwBKoteX4JH3y


Note the munitions the Ukrainians are using, which they claimed to have destroyed, and were required to have done so as per international treaties.

Fact. Not opinion.

Also note the Russians laughing and thanking Biden for the free kit.
This is not going well. 

The avostal steel plant was the major bastion of Ukrainian forces in Mariupol.

* Edited at 04.17.2022, 4:04 PM ET *

CheckLeftHook
CheckLeftHook
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04.17.2022 | 4:03 PM ET

I just think it's funny that to "counter" Ukrainian and Western propaganda, you directly post RT News...Russian State propaganda lol

"🏴 No Quarter Given 🏴"

Xconchris
Xconchris
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04.17.2022 | 4:05 PM ET


Dont forget the Twitter/Instagram posts of a random US passport calling it a US spook with zero evidence

"Dont take life too serious, you will never make it out alive."

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