St. Pierre vs. Diaz

This is the official discussion thread for St. Pierre vs. Diaz. Let's see what you've got.

There's a reason Diaz was awarded this shot coming off a loss, and it's not because GSP asked for him IMO. I think the UFC doubts Diaz could navigate the WW top ten sharp tank and earn another shot fairly. He would likely be an underdog against any of the top 5.

There are haters and then there are Diaz haters, the bottom of the barrel as far as haters go. GSP couldn't finish Hardy or Condit, what in the **** makes you think he'll finish Nick? Pure hatred, that's what.

Bill keep typing of a list of half the division every time you post, it really adds to your "street cred".

Haters

@itfigures  I only repost it so often because so many challenged parts of it or an event happened and I had to keep revising and changing it.  Sorry I had to repost it so often.

SKelliher be worried, it's the year of the upset. I feel a Neo inspired back taking mid double leg followed by a body triangle followed by a rear naked choke

Edit: or via the 2nd round TKO/KO I seem to have picked

* Edited at 02.28.2013, 3:59 PM ET *

GSP will utterly DESTROY Nick Diaz GO GSP!

New 10-Point Breakdown coming up!!!!

My body is ready jay

Nick, while a very excellent fighter, will have nothing new that GSP hasn't seen before.

Condit, Hardy and Alves hit as hard as Nick Diaz.

Fitch wrestles infinitely better.  So did Hughes.

Serra and Penn are also submission specialists.

Condit put the package together and GSP had no undue problems with him.  Condit wasn't over-whelmed by Diaz either.

So, where does Nick put the hurt on GSP?  I don't see it, and Nick will get a rude awakening.  Like a Great White Shark going up against a Killer Whale.  Just not prepared with the right tools.  Gonna get hurt bad.

@Bill. GSP has yet to fight someone who trash talks and insults them during the fight. I think has a sizeable effect on the fight. I wouldn't think that would affect someone as experienced and practical as GSP, but who knows.
Btw,I love the promotional poster for this card.

1. Mental Edge/Confidence/Gameplan - First let's talk about who really is stronger mentally coming into this fight. GSP is letting Nick's mouth get the better of him. Most of all during a fight. Nick Diaz trash talks before, during, and after a fight. The during part is what can be the most distracting. Just ask Takanori Gomi, Frank Shamrock, Scott Smith, and Robbie Lawler. According to Dana White, GSP snapped, and really wants to put a beatdown on Diaz. This can be a good thing for some fighters, but for others, it could be their undoing. It's clear that Diaz is in GSP's head. GSP is still relatively fresh returning from his knee injury. He had a great fight against Condit, who did win against Diaz, but will GSP's knee be on his mind at all leading up to the fight, during training, or during the fight. On that note........Diaz is coming off a long layoff, and his last fight was a loss to Condit. Will that play a factor in Diaz's head at all? GSP's 2 losses are attributed by GSP towards his mental stability coming into those fights. If he's too emotional coming into this fight, could it be his undoing? Now when it comes to confidence, I think both fighters are extremely confident in their respective abilities as MMA fighters, and coming up victorious at the end of this fight, but just how confident is Diaz truly? After all, GSP dominated Condit 4 out of 5 rounds. A fighter who Diaz lost to. When it comes to Gameplan, there is nobody better at putting a gameplan together to win a fight than GSP. His current winning streak, and domination of Carlos Condit after an 18 month layoff is proof of that. Diaz doesn't ever strike me as a fighter who comes up with any kind of a real gameplan. With all this in mind, I have to call this category just about dead even. GSP = 9/10, Diaz = 9/10

2. Experience/Level Of Opposition - Diaz has more fights, but GSP has faced the best opposition at 170 that there is. Do the two cancel each other out? IMO, not really. GSP has more fights in the UFC, has been the UFC WW Champion for over 5 years, and has defended that belt 7 times. Diaz is the former Strikeforce WW Champion, but let's face it, he has not faced the level of opposition that GSP has, nor does he have the top level experience that GSP has. GSP = 10/10, Diaz = 9/10

3. Heart/Determination To Win - GSP has a great determination to win, and against Carlos Condit has improved on being able to overcome adversity, but when it comes to who really continues to fight when the chips are down and the odds are against them, Nick Diaz has proven over and over again that he will never quit in a fight. GSP has improved greatly in this area, but I still think that Diaz holds the advantage here. GSP = 8/10, Diaz = 10/10

4. Stamina/Cardio - Both fighters can fight 5 rounds no problem and be just as fresh in the 5th as they are in the first. GSP is a cardio machine who gets better as the fight goes on, and Diaz has competed in triatholons. Being able to go the distance is not a problem for either fighter. GSP = 10/10, Diaz = 10/10

5. Endurance/Toughness - The question here is..............who is more durable, and who can take the better shot? IMO, Diaz is the definitive picture of toughness and the ability to take punishment. Diaz has stood toe-to-toe with Paul Daley, Robbie Lawler, KJ Noons, Evangelista Santos, BJ Penn, Carlos Condit, and Takanori Gomi. He's also stood toe-to-toe with 185ers like Scott Smith and Frank Shamrock. Diaz took the best striking that all of these fighters have had to give, and still comes walking right through them begging for more. If there is any area where I think that there is a weakness in GSP's game, it's right here. He can cut and bruise easily, and I think he's been rocked more often in his career than Diaz. GSP = 8/10, Diaz = 10/10

6. Overall Striking - Ask yourself................who do you see winning by KO on the feet if it really came down it? Both are technical strikers on the feet. GSP has the versatility, but Diaz punches in bunches, and they all do damage. GSP is quicker and stronger, but Diaz has the punches that will land with that relentless "thud". Both have knocked fighters out, but I think Diaz would be more likely to win by KO/TKO than GSP. GSP = 9/10, Diaz = 10/10

7. Overall Wrestling/Grappling - Diaz is really good at sweeps and hip tosses, but GSP has adapted his wrestling for grappling for MMA better than any other fighter at 170. Hell p4p, I think that GSP has the best takedowns in MMA, and the most complete wrestling adapted for MMA. Diaz has improved in this area over the years, but his takedown defense is still subpar at best. This is also what I think is GSP's strongest attribute in his overall fight game, and Diaz's weakest. GSP = 10/10, Diaz = 7/10

8. Overall Submissions/BJJ - Nick Diaz is a black belt under Cesar Gracie, and has utilized his submission game very well over the course of his career. GSP has improved his submission defense over the years, and even submitted Matt Hughes in their 3rd fight with the same type of that Matt Hughes got GSP with in their first fight, so GSP has some submissions of his own. The big question here is, do I see either fighter submitting the other? Honestly...........................no. I'm going to call this area even, but it is quite arguable that Diaz might have a razor thin advantage here. GSP = 10/10, Diaz = 10/10

9. Strength/Size - GSP has strength that matches that of Josh Koscheck, Jon Fitch, and Matt Hughes. He's also a large WW like the afformentioned fighters. In all honesty, I think that GSP is the strongest WW in the UFC, and he knows how to utilized it to his fullest advantage. Diaz is a tall WW, but he's neither a strong nor large WW. Advantage GSP. GSP = 10/10, Diaz = 8/10

10. Speed/Athleticism - IMHO, GSP is the poster-child for speed and athleticism. Along with his strength, and well-rounded ability, it's what has helped him to be so successful in the UFC, and be the most dominate WW of all time. GSP = 10/10, Diaz = 8/10

Overall Score - Georges "Rush" St. Pierre = 94/100, Nick Diaz = 91/100 

* Edited at 03.03.2013, 7:05 PM ET *

Counter points, to play devil's advocate. 

1) Immeasurable, but the fact that Diaz has backpedalled from calling GSP out in his Strikeforce days to saying he never meant anything bad against him and saying at a presser last year that he'd "take his beating like a man," doesn't lead me to believe he actually feels as confident as GSP in this fight. GSP is not thinking of this fight as a top contender challenging him, and he isn't selling it that way. He knows Condit is better (he's said it several times) but just wants to hurt Diaz.

2) Putting Diaz 1 pt below GSP here is strange. You basically admit he has nowhere near the level of opposition as GSP, and the opposition he has had at that level ... beat him almost without exception, and the majority of those losses were to UFC lightweights. 

3) Immeasurable, but I haven't seen Diaz get floored by a head kick and come back to fight 3 more rounds and dominate against the level of fighter GSP just did. He also fought Shields for 3+ rounds with no vision in one eye and dominated Thiago Alves for 2 full rounds with a torn abductor. The only WWs I've seen Diaz go through adversity while still coming back to win were against Paul Daley, Cyborg Santos and Robbie Lawler ... hardly the same level of opposition and no serious injuries in those bouts.

4) Both guys can fight 5 rounds with no issues -- fair enough, but GSP has physically dominated the best WWs in the world for 25-minute fights for years ... Diaz hasn't done anything close. 

5) I recall seeing GSP rocked twice in his career. Really rocked. Against Serra, when he lost the belt, and against Condit in his last fight, which he dominated. Diaz has been rocked by a few guys, but this is another immeasurable category. 

6) Striking. Completely disagree with you here. If I see someone winning by KO, it's GSP easily. He has much more one-strike power. He's dropped Jon Fitch, Thiago Alves, Hughes, Hieron, etc. Diaz piles on the punches until you go down, and he's fighting a guy with the best striking defense in WW history, and top 5 in UFC history. Diaz is among the most-hit fighters in UFC history. Doesn't make for a good match-up. Diaz throws punches almost exclusively. GSP is a much better boxer IMO and I think Diaz fans will be shocked at how the boxing in this fight goes, and he has plenty of other strikes in his arsenal, unlike Diaz.

7-8) Not even close here. Diaz has a good guard game, and while he has submitted Cyborg Santos, Scott Smith, Sakurai and Josh Neer, he hasn't done too much against top guys on the ground. GSP is the best guard passer in MMA history, most modern fighters and coaches agree that the closed guard is dead or dying in MMA, and GSP has taken down every single fighter he has tried to take down, and was flash subbed once, 9 years ago. Diaz might be the more technical BJJ fighter, but it won't matter.

9) Really? Diaz is 2 pts behind GSP in strength/size? The most physically-dominant WW in history against Diaz, who was overpowered and out-grappled by Parisyan, Diego Sanchez and Joe Riggs. Granted, he's bigger and stronger now, but so is GSP. His legs look like an Olympic sprinter for God's sake. 

10) You got the pick right, but again, putting Diaz at 8 is wishful thinking. Nobody has ever posted speed as a marked advantage for the Diaz brothers. Diaz relies on getting hit and toughing through it. As an additional point, I used to be a fitness writer, and I can tell you that most modern research on the type of conditioning the Diaz brothers do (distance and time) builds slow-twitch muscle and actually decreases athletic speed. GSP does Olympic sprints. Nuff' said.

Anything can happen in MMA, and Diaz could win, but I think this is the easiest fight for a prepared GSP in his entire title reign, possibly with the exception of BJ Penn.

* Edited at 03.04.2013, 12:26 AM ET *

Easier than Dan Hardy?

@Ben: Surprisingly, I think so, but you can make a strong argument against that one. Hardy might not beat Diaz, but he's much larger and stronger than Diaz and IMO posed a bigger threat to GSP on the feet in terms of KO power. Diaz is certainly leaps and bounds above Hardy in terms of being a submission threat, but I don't think GSP will be finished via submission for the remainder of his career, unless he gets dropped, then subbed.

Counter points to counter both of your novels @skelli @jay

WAR DIAAAAZ !

@ skelliher - I agree with the last line of your 10 point argument, and you post some great points in your rebuttle. I believe that this will be a great win for a very well prepared GSP, but by no means will it be easy. I stand by my breakdown, and I don't feel that I'm giving either fighter any more or less credit than they deserve.

I jest ;)

This fight is going to look similar to the Bendo/Nate Diaz fight. Nick has never fought anyone with the skill of GSP's top game ever. Diaz brothers are infamous for bad TDD and I really can't see Nick winning this fight at all.

A big part of Bendo's win was the advantage in the stand up, which I think is safe to say was caused by Nate's blurry vision. Thats what allowed him to gain an advantage everywhere the fight went. I don't think it would go the same way if they fought again, and I don't think thats how it will go with GSP/Diaz. Granted, GSP wins this match up more than 50% of the time IMO, but thats not gonna be from the stand up. If GSP tests the waters standing with Nick, he will either play it safe until the take down or Nick will make him realize that he has to play it safe and go for the take down. So GSP will wrestle Diaz to a victory if he does win, and it won't look nearly as good as Bendo's last win, I think. Like you said, Diaz hasn't faced a top game like GSP's but that goes both ways. Has GSP fought anyone with submissions off the back like Diaz? No. Closest is Shields who works his jitz off the top, and GSP didn't wanna go there. I'm not gonna say GSP was scared to roll with Shields, he was just implemented the smartest game plan, but that's not gonna work with Diaz's boxing. It's gonna be a tough sub for Nick to pull but I hope he gets it. Nick by 1st round sub i know its a long shot but its also a much better pick than GSP by any kind of finish

If Diaz is smart, he should focus on nothing but leg kicks. just keep kicking GSP's knee lol. I love GSP, and am a huge fan, but something is telling me that his time as champ may end. You know, when you get that feeling?

Win, loose or draw, (well not draw) I am going to enjoy this fight no matter which way it lands.

Bendo vs. Nate Diaz is not the only relevant model we can refer to.  MacDonald vs. Nate is also a very close model.  Mac fights in the style of GSP and Nate fights in the style of Nick.

I think most here are WAY off in some of their opinions.  If GSP decides to stand with Nick, Nick will NOT get the better of GSP.  All of Nick's past opponents stood back and allowed Diaz to set the pace, determine the rhythm.  That is NOT going to happen here.

GSP will get in his face and start aggressively popping and snapping his jab in Nick's face.  Nick has NEVER encountered anyone with the ability or balls to do that before.  He will find his slow punches not fast enough to hold GSP off.  

After GSP has decided he has softened up Nick enough he will take him down at will, and Nick's vaunted submission game off his back will not be enough to hold his own against GSP's superior wrestling.  GSP will ground and pound Nick and apply hurtful knees, slashing elbows and cut up Nick's eyebrows and THERE WILL BE BLOOD!

Nick will not be able to push the stronger man off of him.  This basic procedure will repeat all 5 rounds, with the addition of real hard leg kicks.

Now mind you, none of this need happen, if Nick is savvy enough to change up his game plan.  If Nick adopts an innovative kick and run strategy, much like Condit did with him, this could end up a very different fight than I am out-lining here.  But Nick is not known for such a drastic change in his fighting style.  But then again, neither was Condit.  And Condit took some heat for his switch-up.  

* Edited at 03.05.2013, 12:30 PM ET *