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#1 WW-MW of all-time tournament

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SoccerKick
SoccerKick
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01.19.2012 | 10:55 AM ET

We all know who would win if we did just a single WW or MW tournament so let's combine them. Even though I'm pretty sure who's going to end up in the finals maybe we'll get an upset or 2 along the way! This is what I have so far no order As always changes are welcome

  • Anderson Silva
  • Georges St. Pierre
  • Matt Hughes
  • Rich Franklin
  • Nate Marquardt
  • Jake Shields
  • Pat Miletich
  • Jon Fitch
  • Josh Koscheck
  • Kazushi Sakuraba
  • Frank Shamrock
  • Nick Diaz
  • Hayato Sakurai
  • Evan Tanner
  • Yushin Okami 
  • Chael Sonnen


* Edited at 01.19.2012, 12:47 PM ET *

"I'm too old to be run by the fears of dumb people "

Responses Page 8

Gregory
Gregory
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01.20.2012 | 5:46 PM ET

It seems like people aren't looking at things in the same way.  And there's no right vs wrong.

Sakuraba at his best would lose to Franklin at his best.

But Sakuraba's accomplishments in the sport were more meaningful for their time, and surpassed what Franklin accomplished in his time.

So, who is better on the all time list? It's different depending on how you want to set this up.

* Edited at 01.20.2012, 5:47 PM ET *

"I live, I die, I live again."

theMMAmessiah
theMMAmessiah
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01.20.2012 | 5:50 PM ET

@gregory no I would agree with what you just said. Sakuraba's accomplishments are greater than Franklin's. But when your talking about their fighting ability, Sakuraba isn't even in the same league. And to think anything otherwise is ignorance, give me all the thumbs down you want, I'll never lie and say, Oh I see your point there, maybe I should reconsider when it's obvious that someone is as wrong as Mino and others are about this. 

And Mino, fighting good people lowered his longevity? People in the UFC fight the best fight in and fight out for years. Anderson has had 14 fights all against top 10 guys, outside of maybe Irvin and Lutter, he's also 37? So why hasn't he experienced this huge decline like Sakuraba or Fedor? It's because these mythical huge declines in talent are just that, myths.
Gregory
Gregory
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01.20.2012 | 5:55 PM ET

@messiah I agree ... though the CB Dollaway example is a bit much.  Sakuraba at his best was pretty damn good at what he did (wrestle, grapple).  Dollaway might just get subbed.   Honestly, it's a more interesting fantasy fight (prime Saku vs prime Dollaway) than prime Saku vs prime Franklin.

The latter would be probably a sad KO.  The former would be interesting and tell us a lot about both fighters.

"I live, I die, I live again."

kallousklown
kallousklown
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01.20.2012 | 5:58 PM ET

After reading this discussion, Im starting to remember Rich's nasty KO on Quarry.

"Are we gonna jump, or we just gonna jerk each other off?"

Gregory
Gregory
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01.20.2012 | 5:58 PM ET

As for Sakuraba's decline:

1) he's ancient right now ... dude is 42 and was never in really good shape or took care of himself like Randy. Saku would drink and smoke during training camp.

2) he's suffered some amazingly brutal and unnecessary beatings, again and again. Beatings of the type that they don't allow to even go on in modern MMA.   This unquestionably has impacted his healthy and ability to fight in a way that, for example, 40 year old Vladimir Matyushenko has not endured.

"I live, I die, I live again."

theMMAmessiah
theMMAmessiah
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01.20.2012 | 6:00 PM ET

I still think cb would win handily but I can see your points, but that's not the basis of the debate. And the fact is Franklin or any other top flight fighter would wreck a prime saku and that's the closest thing u can come to fact when it comes to fantasy discussions
Hybrid
Hybrid
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01.20.2012 | 6:07 PM ET

@Kallous Thank you! Nobody ever remembers Franklin's finishing rate. Man barely ever went to decision, and his ko's straight up jacked people up.

"History boils down to a few really awesome people doing really awesome stuff, and a bunch of idiots messing it up for everyone else."

Hybrid
Hybrid
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01.20.2012 | 6:10 PM ET

@Mino Yes, Saku has beaten great grapplers, but the grapplers he's beaten were nowhere near the striker that Rich Franklin was. He may be able to take Franklin down, but I honestly believe Franklin could keep it standing long enough to land flush, and a flush shot by Franklin can take out damn near anybody. Also, Franklin has some pretty awesome sub defense. Does nobody else remember that slick armbar escape a while back?

Not to mention that Franklin is a good deal bigger than Saku. Strength is important.

* Edited at 01.20.2012, 6:11 PM ET *

"History boils down to a few really awesome people doing really awesome stuff, and a bunch of idiots messing it up for everyone else."

Gregory
Gregory
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01.20.2012 | 6:12 PM ET

@messiah the problem is that way of looking at fantasy tournaments always favors the modern day fighters (because, I agree, Saku would generally get crushed).  the old school fighters always lose because sports evolve and move on.  in that way i think it becomes a more interesting discussion to compare their relative accomplishments.

"I live, I die, I live again."

minotauro11
minotauro11
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01.20.2012 | 6:13 PM ET

Yeah Franklin would have a huge edge on the feet and in size/strength, but I still think Sakuraba could take him down and submit him. His low single (which worked for Ken Shamrock against Franklin) was the stuff of legend.

"We Are All One"

Hybrid
Hybrid
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01.20.2012 | 6:17 PM ET

@Mino It worked, but Ken couldn't keep him down. That's the thing. Honestly, I'm of the opinion that Ken's wrestling was better than Saku's. Overall grappling, Saku was better, but I think Shamrock was better at holding people down.

"History boils down to a few really awesome people doing really awesome stuff, and a bunch of idiots messing it up for everyone else."

kallousklown
kallousklown
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01.20.2012 | 6:18 PM ET

I like hearing your guys opinions.

"Are we gonna jump, or we just gonna jerk each other off?"

Hybrid
Hybrid
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01.20.2012 | 6:19 PM ET

@Mino I see where you're coming from, I just think the fight would end in a knockout for Franklin.

"History boils down to a few really awesome people doing really awesome stuff, and a bunch of idiots messing it up for everyone else."

JustynOfOsiris
JustynOfOsiris
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01.20.2012 | 9:53 PM ET

@messiah To reply to your posts from earlier
Before Diaz fought Penn in all actuality he wasn't in the top ten and anyone who really looked at it would of known that.
I still hold my ground on any good wrestler would beat Nick Diaz though and that's not a personal thing that is just a conclusion anyone could come to by really looking at it.
Jay Hieron would beat Nick Diaz. 

"Is reality really realistic?"

Swickotine
Swickotine
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01.20.2012 | 9:55 PM ET

...and that's why you're insane justyn.

"I'm bi-polar...nice jab, mean hook."

Lopati
Lopati
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01.20.2012 | 10:00 PM ET

@justyn, yeah cuz in the real world he didn't sub Gomi, oh wait yeah he did.  his list of victims is not something to laugh at.

saying Jay Heiron would beat Diaz, I would do a pink slip bet on that.

"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it." Jose Ortega y Gasset

JustynOfOsiris
JustynOfOsiris
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01.20.2012 | 10:00 PM ET

@swick no i am just a realist

"Is reality really realistic?"

JustynOfOsiris
JustynOfOsiris
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01.20.2012 | 10:02 PM ET

@lopati i would take that bet

"Is reality really realistic?"

Lopati
Lopati
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01.20.2012 | 10:06 PM ET

you would take Heiron in a pink slip bet?  well if we ever get the opportunity, I will be waiting anxiously fella.

"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it." Jose Ortega y Gasset

JustynOfOsiris
JustynOfOsiris
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01.20.2012 | 10:09 PM ET

@lopati haha alright well if it ever does happen i will make sure we set this bet up!

"Is reality really realistic?"

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