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#1 WW-MW of all-time tournament

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SoccerKick
SoccerKick
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01.19.2012 | 10:55 AM ET

We all know who would win if we did just a single WW or MW tournament so let's combine them. Even though I'm pretty sure who's going to end up in the finals maybe we'll get an upset or 2 along the way! This is what I have so far no order As always changes are welcome

  • Anderson Silva
  • Georges St. Pierre
  • Matt Hughes
  • Rich Franklin
  • Nate Marquardt
  • Jake Shields
  • Pat Miletich
  • Jon Fitch
  • Josh Koscheck
  • Kazushi Sakuraba
  • Frank Shamrock
  • Nick Diaz
  • Hayato Sakurai
  • Evan Tanner
  • Yushin Okami 
  • Chael Sonnen


* Edited at 01.19.2012, 12:47 PM ET *

"I'm too old to be run by the fears of dumb people "

Responses Page 5

Hybrid
Hybrid
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01.20.2012 | 12:51 AM ET

No, scrutinizing you for being a Chael fan is valid because you believe his wins are more legitimate. My way of backing up the legitimacy of Franklin's career and skill is by showing the discrepancies between him and another fighter on this list. Namely, Sonnen.

"History boils down to a few really awesome people doing really awesome stuff, and a bunch of idiots messing it up for everyone else."

Brazilian Jitz
Brazilian Jitz
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01.20.2012 | 12:51 AM ET

Okay now youre just arguing about nothing. Evidently Ive backed dat ass in a corner and your trying to argue about when they started fighting over a decade ago, when you were either 4 years old or 34 years old..

Can I say, fatality, Zarog?

* Edited at 01.20.2012, 12:52 AM ET *

"Albert Fish... I mean that guy was a real jerk!"

zarog
zarog
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01.20.2012 | 12:53 AM ET

No, I just quit arguing with a four year old.

"Surrender??!! You think this letter on my head stands for France?" - Captain America

Brazilian Jitz
Brazilian Jitz
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01.20.2012 | 12:57 AM ET

I said Shamrock beating Sonnen is a joke. Objectively , it really is. Then I merely pointed out Franklin is 6-5 in his last 11 fights, is that not a fact?  Pounding Marquardt, Okami, subbing Stann, and almost beating Silva seems pretty legitimate to me. Why can you not accept the level of competition in the MW divison is better now then it was when Franklin was dominant?

You trying to use the"oh youre a chael fan" shows kinks in your armor.

"Albert Fish... I mean that guy was a real jerk!"

Hybrid
Hybrid
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01.20.2012 | 12:57 AM ET

First off, the age is completely off. Second, the reason the time they started fighting is important is because you mentioned Chael and Rich's entrances into the UFC. I was simply stating that Rich had been fighting in the big leagues a hell of a lot longer than Chael had, even though their professional careers in MMA started around the same time. The only reason I use Chael as the other person in this argument is because he's on this list, you happen to like him.

"History boils down to a few really awesome people doing really awesome stuff, and a bunch of idiots messing it up for everyone else."

Hybrid
Hybrid
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01.20.2012 | 1:00 AM ET

@Nik I never said a single thing about Shamrock vs Sonnen, so I don't know why you're bringing it up.Shamrock wouldn't stand a chance against him. I also brought up the fact that Franklin's losses recently (outside of Silva) were all outside of the MW division, and as such have next to no impact on his overall ranking in the MW All-Time-Greats list. Even then, he was past his prime anyways.

Edit: Balls. Mistype. Shamrock wouldn't stand a chance against him. Not Franklin. Derp. Fixed it

* Edited at 01.20.2012, 1:03 AM ET *

"History boils down to a few really awesome people doing really awesome stuff, and a bunch of idiots messing it up for everyone else."

Lopati
Lopati
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01.20.2012 | 1:04 AM ET

lets try to keep this from turning into the SHERDOG forums fellas.

"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it." Jose Ortega y Gasset

Hybrid
Hybrid
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01.20.2012 | 1:06 AM ET

@Nik Except Sonnen's wins in the UFC aren't against anybody tougher than Franklin fought at MW. Franklin beat Okami pretty handily too, and the Stann fight was a gimme to Sonnen and we all know it was. Marquardt is a good fighter, but he's fairly overrated as is. If the division is better than it was in Franklin's prime, then it isn't better by very much.

"History boils down to a few really awesome people doing really awesome stuff, and a bunch of idiots messing it up for everyone else."

Brazilian Jitz
Brazilian Jitz
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01.20.2012 | 1:10 AM ET

You're right, my mistake.
You made the claim that Franklin would destory everyone on that list, and I disagree with that. Also, loosing in another weight class does hold validity. He fought Vitor at 195 and got Kod pretty quick. Im not seeing what difference that would have made 10 pounds lighter.

Yes, Franklin has been here longer, but as I stated, the competition was nothing to what it is now.

Lol now your saying Marquardt is overrated and Stann was a gimme. This debate is over.

@Zarog, Says the guy who wanted thumbs up for thinking he owned a chael fan. But I guess your bio says it all " Yeah. Im awesome.....thats it" Cheers to that.

"Albert Fish... I mean that guy was a real jerk!"

Hybrid
Hybrid
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01.20.2012 | 1:10 AM ET

@Lopati. Don't worry. I'm done anyways. There's no point in arguing this any further. After this.

I never said Franklin would destroy everybody on the list. Never said that at all. You can double check. I said that he destroys "Just about anybody" and that he had already beat a few of them on the list. He's gotten old enough that his chin is weaker, and Vitor hits ****** hard, and it being at 185 probably wouldn't have changed too much, but it's nonetheless a catchweight. I've always felt Marquardt has been overrated, and I didn't just make that up for the sake of argument. Finally, Stann had ****** ****** wrestling and the put him up against one of the three best wrestlers in the division, we all knew exactly what would happen. So yeah, that was a gimme, just to put him in position for a title run again.

And after this, I'm done. Goodnight.

* Edited at 01.20.2012, 1:20 AM ET *

"History boils down to a few really awesome people doing really awesome stuff, and a bunch of idiots messing it up for everyone else."

zarog
zarog
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01.20.2012 | 1:12 AM ET

This seems like it's about to turn into a flame war. I'll admit I'm a fan of Rich. Chael's been a good fighter in the UFC. Really not sure how the Chael vs. Rich thing started, but really don't understand the point of arguing it. Unless Franklin and Chael fight, I doubt we'll know who was actually better. However, based on their records at MW in the UFC Rich (8-2 with 5 KOs, 2 submissions, 1 decision) seems to be better than Chael (5-3 with 1 submission, 4 decisions). 

* Edited at 01.20.2012, 1:17 AM ET *

"Surrender??!! You think this letter on my head stands for France?" - Captain America

Lopati
Lopati
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01.20.2012 | 1:36 AM ET

I wish some of the posters would get off this BS of fighters are so much better today than they were 5 years ago therefore todays fighters would walk through them.

Come up with a legit argument, that is exceptionally weak and full of flaws folks.

That would be like saying well the 27' Yankees would get crushed by the 74' Reds because baseball has advanced. 

"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it." Jose Ortega y Gasset

Lopati
Lopati
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01.20.2012 | 1:39 AM ET

so with the thinking that is going on, I guess Chuck and Randy would get walked thru by todays LHW?  do people think that chuck was way to 1 dimensional for todays fighters???  

this is about to get interesting?

"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it." Jose Ortega y Gasset

JustynOfOsiris
JustynOfOsiris
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01.20.2012 | 3:57 AM ET

@soccerkick the whole idea to do these tournaments was awesome so props on that.
But Nick Diaz has NO business being in this at all. He has 1 top ten win in his entire career, and him only being down 3 thumbs to Jon Fitch is complete shananagins. I know these are just for fun and all but we should atleast be trying to be somewhat honest with how we vote and Nick Diaz beating Jon Fitch is crazy! Not only because Nick Diaz isn't that good but because he has went out of his way to not face wrestlers his whole career and Jon Fitch would wrestle the **** out of him all the way to a decision and we all know that.

"Is reality really realistic?"

SoccerKick
SoccerKick
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01.20.2012 | 10:06 AM ET

@Justyn I absolutely agree about Diaz/Fitch...But there are a lot of Nick Diaz fans on this site and very few Jon Fitch ones!

"I'm too old to be run by the fears of dumb people "

poir420
poir420
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01.20.2012 | 10:09 AM ET

How has he gone out of his way to not fight wrestlers? Last I checked fighters didn't get to chose who they fought.

"“All of a sudden, he was shooting for a takedown, and I’m like, ‘Oh, you’re a wrestler now? Remember, I’m the black belt in jiu-jitsu. And you’re shooting on me now? This is a wrap." - Nate Diaz"

SoccerKick
SoccerKick
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01.20.2012 | 10:11 AM ET

Opening round is complete we have:

  • #1 seed Anderson Silva
  • #2 seed Georges St. Pierre
  • #3 seed Matt Hughes
  • #4 seed Rich Franklin
  • #6 seed Sakuraba
  • #7 seed Pat Miletich
  • #8 seed Jon Fitch
  • #12 seed Chael Sonnen

"I'm too old to be run by the fears of dumb people "

SoccerKick
SoccerKick
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01.20.2012 | 10:13 AM ET

@Poir when it was Tyron Woodley's turn to get a title shot what happened? Diaz started talking about boxing to get moved to the UFC now he was supposed to fight the best wrestler in MMA after moving, but him not showing up got him out of the fight and now Georges knee injury has delayed that fight longer

"I'm too old to be run by the fears of dumb people "

SoccerKick
SoccerKick
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01.20.2012 | 10:15 AM ET

#1 seed Anderson Silva vs #12 seed Chael Sonnen (Thumbs up Silva...thumbs down Sonnen)

 

"I'm too old to be run by the fears of dumb people "

poir420
poir420
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01.20.2012 | 10:16 AM ET

So you think he knew that not showing up to the press conference would get him booted from that fight? Why would he call him out again after beating BJ if he doesnt want to fight him? I just think it's a silly statement to say he is no good and has dodged wrestlers his whole career.

"“All of a sudden, he was shooting for a takedown, and I’m like, ‘Oh, you’re a wrestler now? Remember, I’m the black belt in jiu-jitsu. And you’re shooting on me now? This is a wrap." - Nate Diaz"

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