Is it finally time to admit Fedor was grossly overrated?

Not that he wasn't good for his time, not that he didn't accomplish a lot. But the fact is there were ZERO good HW's when he was dominating Pride. And this entire fandom talked about him like he was a god. It was laughable to even suggest he could lose. And this is what I'm referring too.

Can the old time Pride boys, finally, just come to this thread, lower their head, and admit that Fedor perhaps WASN'T that good??????

I mean jesus how much more ******* proof do you need?

I think Noguiera, Cro Cop and Fedor in their primes would easily be elite heavyweights today.

I agree Nomad




I think it funny that anyone would try and suggest Nog/Cro cop when they fought in the UFC was ever in there primes.  Nog was pretty much completely blind in one eye his entire UFC career.  Cro cop was a shell of himself and still is, but has finally adjusted to losing his speed. Cro cop in pride was lighter and much faster then the one that fought in the UFC by far.  Also the Fedor that fought bigfoot was out of his prime as well, hell the fight before that Fight, Fedor's own trainer said Fedor had lost a step in speed. Not to mention that the Bigfoot that fought Fedor was most likely roideding out of his gills and is not at all comparable to the one Mir fought last night. Bigfoot looked to be a shell of himself in his last two fights with out his drugs pumping him up.

* Edited at 02.23.2015, 9:22 AM ET *

Fedor was undefeated for ten years. He beat Big Nog easily in 2003 when Nog looked unstoppable. He fought in an elite tournament and won with relative ease. That included fighting with a broken toe against Randleman. 
He beat CC when he was at his best and was nearly impossible to take down. 

I mean really, how hard do you think it was to look unstoppable in a HW division in 2003!!!!!!! I mean my god, it's like I speak to walls.

@nomad well you're wrong.

All of them did not just decline at the same time I mean how naive do you have to be to think they all just stopped magically being good due to age in their early ******* 30's. They all started to get their ass whipped by people they had never fought before all within a cpl years of everyone thinking they were unstoppable.

First of all, your last comment can be said about everyone over the last few years. BJ Penn, Chuck, Tito, Hughes, Wandy, Hendo, Fedor, Nog, Couture, CroCop. Literally all of the best fighters from the last generation other than Reem and Vitor basically fell of an ability cliff around the same time...and Nog STILL held the UFC belt as recently as '08 and was in contention in '10. 


To your original point, this is the exact same argument that is held in every sport. The generation gap. Babe Ruth wasn't that good because he played against weaker players, blah blah blah. Skill transcends all, and if you don't think Fedor had a tremendous amount of skill then you are a fool. 

Fact Mir was UFC champ when Fedor was at his so called best :P 

Dan Henderson is older than Fedor and he came upto Fedors own weight and dropped him :D  Fedor is Also younger than Brock Lesnar  

@Itzz_Amii  Yeah, but Fedor was also Pride FC Champ after he beat (at the time) the best heavyweight fighter in the world in Minotauro Nogueira.  Frank Mir beat Tim Sylvia, who (with all due respect to Tim Sylvia) hadn't faced any real competition during his first UFC Title reign outside of Ricco Rodriguez.  Hell, Dana White even admitted that the UFC Heavyweight division at the time Sylvia was in his first title reign was relatively weak compared to Pride. 

I think some are underestimating the wear and tear of MMA.

Losses after moving to US promotions:
Gonzaga's 9th fight vs. Cro Cop's 29th
JDS 10th vs. Cro Cop's 35th
Mir's 19th vs. Cro Cop's 38th
Mir's 15th vs. Nogueira's 38th
Cain's 8th vs. Nogueira's 39th
Mir's 21st vs. Nogueira's 42nd
Werdum 19th vs. Fedor's 34th
Bigfoot's 18th vs. Fedor's 36th

# of fights before turning 32:
Fedor 31
Cro Cop 27MMA+23K-1
Nogueira 37

Cain 14
JDS 20
Mir 19
Werdum 16
Gonzaga 17
Hendo 14
Bigfoot 19

Fedor/Nogueira/Mirko averaged 39 fights by 32 years old.

Cain/JDS/Mir/Werdum/Gonzaga/Hendo averaged 17 fights by 32 years old.


It's not surprising that nearly 80% of Fedor/Nogueira/Cro Cop's losses post-Japan have been via Strikes.
Hendo hit 37 fights and then has lost 5 of his last 6.  Once you get 35 or so fights in, whoever you are, your body just can't keep competing at the highest level with top 10 guys who have 10 fights.

Nogueira at 20 fights vs. JDS at 20 fights, Fedor at 14 fights vs. Cain at 14 fights.  Those are the real comparisons to make.  

Whether right or wrong on how someone feels some HW's would've done had they made their way to US promotions sooner, the real difference-maker would be if they'd made their way over at any point with a whole lot less mileage on their bodies.

* Edited at 02.23.2015, 12:50 PM ET *

Simple tape footage that can be found all over Youtube is proof enough that Fedor Emelianenko and Mirko Cro Cop's respective declines began prior to their moves to Strikeforce and the UFC respectively.

* Edited at 02.23.2015, 12:48 PM ET *

Frank Mir would have as much if not more wear and tear then Fedor  and Mir has beat both the guys Fedor fans agree  his best wins ( big Nog and CroCop ) and i also agree fedor beat them at there best but i also think that Mir has face the tougher fighters Inside the UFC .
please dont get me wrong i am not saying Fedor is **** he was a great fighter and is a great man but some fighters in his era are better than him yo can goo unbeaten fighting 70% losers he could still fight in the UFC Today if he wished but he wont cos he knows he will lose and his legacy would be  gone  .
Mir broke his leg and i think that ties any MMA wear and tear Fedor had :)

Age is crucial in a sport like MMA that takes a huge physical toll on the body. All of the arguments pointing towards Fedor's overratedness stem from a bare-boned analysis of his career while he was in his mid-30's. 

I'm sorry, but it's just such a dumb ******* argument to keep on making. What, does aging apply to everyone but Fedor? By God why do people keep making this argument, it's pointless.

@Itzz_Amii - No offense meant at all, contribute away to discussion but I feel it necessary to point out that exactly 10 days ago you said you didn't know what PRIDE was and you've never seen a Frankie Edgar or Urijah Faber fight.  Not to mention you would've been 7 years old when Fedor fought his final fight in PRIDE.  Opine away, but I don't think you have the frame of reference for the comparisons being made on this particular topic.  I don't go in threads about the best 1960's tv shows.  Not trying to be condescending, just an accurate observation I'm sure you see as well.

@Itzzwhat are you even trying to argue? Are you trying to say Mir is as good as Fedor? 




Because the answer a big fat NO. Mir would get killed by Prime fedor. Also just for the record, prime cro cop would **** stomp Mir badly. Both prime cro cop/Fedor striking skill, power and speed would completely overwhelm Mir, they also had way better movement then he ever had.

* Edited at 02.23.2015, 1:06 PM ET *

Im not arguing anything im just pointing out how alot of Fedor fans seems to be blind and just follow the trend to save face and not have to explain **** too his nut huggers :)
And since Fedor never went into the  UFC  we can truly never know who would of won but since both guys wer active at the same time if fedor had of went too the UFC its a fight that might of happened :P  Im gussing you guys like fedor ;)

I'm not choosing anyone over the other, nor am I a nut-hugger or fan of either side.  I actually really want to see 20 fight Nogueira vs. 20 fight JDS and 14 fight Cain vs. 14 fight Fedor.

At 20 fights Nog was PRIDE champ and JDS was previously UFC champ.  At 14 fights, Fedor was PRIDE champ and Cain is UFC champ.  That would be awesome as a fan to be able to see.  I have no opinion on who'd win because this is MMA where anything is possible, we don't need to look further back than the UFC yesterday to see this as 10 underdogs in a row won.

* Edited at 02.23.2015, 1:16 PM ET *

And im not picking sides or hating but we seen what happened when Werdum and Fedor had there fight in real life and thats where it counts and i think Fedor would lose to Cain much the way Lesnar beat mir but until the guys fight im no more right than you are.

But its a trend too say Fedor is the goat otherwise you end up like me here now with 2 people calling you out .
Or worse you end up like the guy with 22 dislikes 

I didnt discover MMA 10 days ago i signed up 10 days ago after seeing my 1st live UFC  My brother has done mma and boxing since he was a boy i might not of always known who is who and what UFC is but ive seen him watch them at night and got into it around the same time woman came too the UFC

That is all 

* Edited at 02.23.2015, 1:33 PM ET *

Again, I truly wasn't trying to be condescending.  It's great you're fan enough to hop on the forums so I wasn't trying to pull a "you haven't been a fan long enough so your opinion matters less", the topic being discussed just really is one that needs some frame of reference.  There will always be fans who say Fedor is the GOAT, while some will say Anderson is the GOAT, and others will say GSP is the GOAT.  No one is going to change anyone's mind because there will never be an even comparison both sides would agree on.  A topic like this is the same as starting one replacing Fedor with Anderson after he lost to Weidman twice.  Some people just want to wait until a decade long winning streak ends so they can say they were right the whole time.  For instance, they protected Anderson from great wrestlers.  They protected Liddell from great strikers, Fedor never fought the best, etc.  Careers don't end at their peak so anyone can nitpick the best fighters the sport has seen when they near the end.

@itzzI don't even think a single person has said Fedor would beat Cain. In fact majority of the people here likely agree Cain would win.

No he ended up with so many dislikes not because he disagrees with Fedor being GOAT because alot of people disagree with that (me included). It is because he acting like Fedor is an absolute can. He also suggesting Fedor is not an elite level heavy weight. You might want to actually read what he saying before making such comments. Also the reason your being called out is because you are not making much sense, and seem to have little knowledge of what you are talking about



You literally had no idea what pride was which you stated in another thread, and even now your still suggesting you have no first hand knowledge on the subject you are debating. Why on earth would you think you should debate about someone you have never actually even seen fight in his prime?

* Edited at 02.23.2015, 1:49 PM ET *