Where Does Saku Rank Among the GOAT Lists?

This is an intriguing question to me. Where does Saku rank among the GOAT list?

Saku is undoubtedly my favorite fighter of all time and one of the greatest fighters of all time, but ranking him is a hard thing to do now a days.

Where does he rank? Top 10? Top 20? Top 30? Top 40? Top 50?

Saku has fought from welterweight to heavyweight and has fought some of the GOAT fighters such as Vitor, Wanderlei x 3, Rampage and Cro Cop and some other highly talented and ranked fighters at the time like Newton, Royler, Mezger, Royce, Vovchanchyn, Renzo, Ryan, Randleman, Arona, Minowaman, Akiyama, Funaki, Tamura, Galesic, Ralek, Mayhem, Zaromskis and Cabral.

Among those fights, lets breakdown the key wins and loses of Saku's career:

Key Wins:
Carlos Newton (R2 sub)
Vitor Belfort (UD)
Royler Gracie (R2 sub)
Guy Mezger (R1 TKO)
Royce Gracie (R6 TKO)
Renzo Gracie (R2 sub)
Ryan Gracie (UD)
Quinton Jackson (R1 sub)
Kevin Randleman (R3 sub)
Ikuhisa Minowa (R1 sub)
Kestutis Smirnovas (R1 sub)
Masakatsu Funaki (R1 sub)
Zelg Galesic (R1 sub)

Key Loses:
Igor Vovchanchyn (R1 TKO)
Wanderlei Silva I (R1 TKO)
Mirko Filipovic (R2 TKO)
Wanderlei Silva II (R1 KO)
Antonio Rogerio Nogueira (UD)
Ricardo Arona (R2 TKO)
Melvin Manhoef (R1 KO)
Kiyoshi Tamura (UD)
Ralek Gracie (UD)
Jason Miller (R1 sub)
Marius Zaromskis (R1 TKO)
Yan Cabral (R2 sub)

Saku's key wins may not seem that impressive now, but back then most of those wins were huge as some of those guys were the elite fighters back then. Not only that, but the way Saku beat them was what his win stand out the most. He dominated a lot of his opponents with some exciting grappling skills and he did things in fights no other fighters was doing back then or is doing now a days.

Among his many attributes and qualities that help him be ranked highly and thought as one of the GOAT fighters are his amazing grappling skills, his transition from being a mid card pro-wrestler into a main event big star MMA fighter in PRIDE, his amazing display of heart and ability to absorb punishment and willingness to fight anyone at any given weight class at anytime, his charisma to get over with the fans, his popularity as he was one of the most popular fighters in PRIDE and Japan and the stunts he would pull in fights such as jumping over opponents into a double stomp on their face, pulling them around the ring by their legs, throwing leg kicks to a fighter who was on his back on the mat, double chops from the guard, cartwheels over opponents, etc.

Saku, in his prime, was truly a once in a life time fighter.

The MMA game has truly evolved a lot from those days which is what makes it so hard to rank Saku.

One thing's for sure and it's that the top 4 P4P spots are pretty much taken by Anderson, GSP, Fedor and Jones.

Then there's other guys like Big Nog, Randy, Chuck, Wanderlei, Shogun, BJ, Aldo, Hughes, Franklin, Vitor, Cro Cop, Hendo, Tito, Frank, Rampage, etc. who would probably rank higher on a P4P list than Saku would.

I honestly don't know how or where I'd rank Saku on a P4P GOAT list, so I'm curious to how and where would you guys rank Saku on the GOAT P4P list.

I'm very interested in reading your cases and debates and I'll probably end up ranking him in there once I hear your cases.

Yes, I know there's plenty of educated and unbiased MMA fans on here such as Live2wrestle, Wish, Legz, Wish Greg, Skell, ANIK, Trae, Yoss, Nomad, etc. and big Saku fans like OldGloom and ProdigyKid who can make interesting debates, so shoot, I'm interested in reading you guys opinions.

* Edited at 11.19.2013, 11:37 AM ET *

I'm a huge Saku fan, but I don't put him in the top ten anymore.  There have just been too many great fighters to come around since his prime.  He's probably still top 20 though.

* Edited at 11.19.2013, 5:48 PM ET *

What fighters would you rank above Saku?

* Edited at 11.19.2013, 3:27 PM ET *

As a fighter, not that high, but as an MMA figure, definitely top 10.

Easiest question ever: Unquestionably, undeniably undisputed #1 GOAT. Period.

nah. And Brazilian Jitz is totally and 100 percent right. 

* Edited at 11.19.2013, 5:39 PM ET *

I SAID PERIOD!

GOAT is not an easy list to make.  There are all sorts of reasons to rank one fighter over another.  Here's my tentative list.

01 Anderson
02 GSP
03 Fedor
04 Hendo
05 Penn 
06 Couture
07 Hughes
08 Jon Jones
09 Wand 
10 Aldo
11 Big Nog
12 Shogun
13 Rampage
14 Liddell
15 Bendo
16 Edgar
17 Frank Shamrock
18 Ortiz
19 Velasquez
20 Saku

I could see moving Saku as high as 15, but as much as I love the guy, he was never actually a champion (unless you count the Saku belt.)  I wouldn't argue much with someone that ranks him even lower. 
 

In terms of excitement, he always had it. I love Saku but I would have a hard time ranking him in the top 20 tbh. He's beaten some names, he's fought some good guys and lost, but he never really held any titles. He lacks in the 'accomplishments' department.

He had plenty of opportunity, but everytime he got on the cusp of anything he would lose. In the guys first ever win he won the UFC Japan HW tourney, but that was some real wacky ****. He made it to the 2000 openweight tourney semi-finals in PRIDE, but again, that was also under some pretty odd circumstances. Every tournament he was ever in, he never made it past the semi finals other than that odd UFC Japan tourney back in the day. Every title fight he ever took part in, he lost.. bad.

He was almost there soooo many times, he just never got there. It's undeniable that the guy is a legend though. One of the best of all time? I don't think so.. sadly.

@grizzlyedwin I appreciate that you name-dropped me but I cannot aid you. If anyone ever noticed, I never talk JMMA...ever.

Why? Simple, it's because I know absolutely nothing about JMMA. I only know what I've heard about Sakuraba from others on this site, I don't know very much about him.

I put him in my lists by default because it seems to be the consensus that he is one of the best ever, but frankly I just don't know very much about him.

* Edited at 11.19.2013, 6:42 PM ET *

@Edwin didn't mention me on the list of members, ***...oh wait, nevermind he did. 


'Where does Saku rank among the GOAT list?'




There I am, thanks Ed.

Please, the people recognize Anik as the undisputed GOAT, the Messiah, the Savior and the Almighty Fuhrer.

Notice how Edwin capitalizes the letters of my names, in order to reinforce my superiority over the rest. Edwin recognizes and you should too.

Hard to rank Saku in a GOAT list, but there's no denying him being one of the most iconic fighters to grace this sport. If he fought at 170 where he probably should have, he could have easily gone down as one of the all time greats. I personally love the guy because he'll fight literally anyone, and seems to not give a **** about anything when he's in the ring (flying stomps, etc.). He has to be one of the most entertaining fighters ever.

He submitted two Gracies which is a big accomplishment, and he beat several fighters that were probably much bigger than he is. A lot of his losses are either at the end of his career, or just against guys that are much larger. I really doubt there's any welterweights around now that are going to try and take on the top fighter at 205. One of his losses that really stands out is the one where he fought Igor. Igor Vovchanchyn was a heavyweight, and he went 15 minutes with him...after going 90 minutes with Royce the same day.

I love the guy, but there's just been some guys that have accomplished more, like @mike said. Definitely an icon in MMA as far as I'm concerned.

I like that list @ An Alias

Forgot to mention Swick, Joe Kerr and some others who're quality posters, but I'll excuse myself mostly based on the fact that one always has avi's of black people and the other of Asian females which makes them hard to tell apart in such an avi culturally mixed audience.

While discussing this serious argument of Saku's place in MMA GOAT list ranking history, I would like to make a huge parenthesis and add in the following...


For you newer Tapologist though, once a year, the top elite Tapologist hold a closed door private reunion in a fancy hotel in the east of the US where we get together to discuss the serious business of mixed martial arts, it's current state, the current state of Tapz over a cup of tea while we drink tea together. At the last private Tapz reunion, Swick got there late because of traffic and personal reasons, but he was in a full blown Tapz classy suit and for the first time ever, here's a leaked photo of Swick getting late to the reunion:



At a sudden moment in the reunion, Bill Burgess who wasn't even invited, showed up, but us classy Tapologist gave him the opportunity to express his sentiment and he went on an endless rant that got everyone worked up ending in another leaked photo of Yoss going nuts:



#behindcloseddoors 

and absolutely no one laughed...

...

Back on topic...

There's many factors that make Saku hard to rank among the elite top fighters of all time.

Saku was a natural middleweight, who occasionally excelled and fought natural fighters a weight class or 2 above him. He never committed himself solely to a weight class until the post PRIDE fall of his career when DREAM came around, but by then he was already years past his prime and on the ending streak of it.

MMA is also seen differently in Japan than it is in America. In America MMA is seen as a sport where you want to be the best fighter in the world, with the best record, the longest win streak, contending for the title or being a champion. In Japan it's seen more based on entertainment and fighting spirit and that's where Saku excelled in which was what made him a huge hit and star back then in PRIDE in Japan.

Had Saku based his career in America instead of Japan, he probably would've committed more to fighting fighters in a specific weight class at middleweight or even at welterweight where he competed in at the end of his career in DREAM.

Many feel had Saku based his career in America, he would've become the UFC welterweight champion and would've even beat Hughes which is a tough fight to call and would've been a dream fight for me and for many fans.

Saku's really hard to rank on a GOAT list because he never based his career around the American mindset. Most of the top ranked fighters based their careers in America around the American mindset established by the UFC (Anderson, GSP, Jones, Hughes, Randy, Chuck, Tito, etc.) and others didn't base their careers in America, but did however base their careers around the American mindset (Fedor, Wanderlei, Shogun, Cro Cop, Hendo, etc.).

I personally would probably rank in the top 15-20, but I honestly don't know how or where I'd rank him cause I'll probably be biased since he's my favorite fighter of all time and because his career was based so differently from the majority of the fighters who could probably be considered the GOAT.

I know for sure I'd rank Saku behind the obvious fighters like Anderson, GSP, Fedor, Jones and behind some others like Wanderlei, Shogun, Hughes, Randy, Chuck, Hendo, Aldo, Penn, Big Nog and Cain. Not sure I'd rank other guys like Rampage, Cro Cop, Bendo, Edgar or Shamrock above Saku.

Saku could of comfortably fought at 165-175lbs as a Welterweight his entire career. A lot reason's it's hard to rate Saku. He fought 2 and 3 division's above his weight. He fought through several eras of mixed martial arts. He fought into his 40s and well past his prime. To me, he's the greatest legend out of the far east. He was one of the greatest of an era, he submitted every gracie they could find him back when it was unheard of to do so. He had insane upsets if it was the rear naked choke of a Prime Rampage or dismantling Vitor Belfort. He was an entertainer, he brought spirit to the fight like few others. To me Saku probably sits around 15th in the greatest mixed martial artists to ever live. 

To me, Sakuraba was undoubtly one of the most intelligent and skilled fighters out there. I always think about, what if he was 23-24 years old coming up now as a ripped welterweight who trained in and out of Japan similar to how Okami or Ishii do. I think he'd run through most anyone at 170lbs today. He's sort of what he is though, he's a hero for always being the underdog, always being the guy you want to believe in, to beat the odds to never give up but he was such a brilliant fighter I still wonder what he could of done at WW in this era. 

* Edited at 11.20.2013, 7:16 AM ET *

The majority of Saku's losses came against much larger opponents or long after he should've been fighting (Ie: Mayhem Miller).

Top 25, no doubt. 

Just for laughs, the only person other than Saku to beat both Rampage AND Vitor: Jon Jones.