Penn vs. MacDonald

This is the official discussion thread for Penn vs. MacDonald. Let's see what you've got.

When I fight Rory, I promise you, It will either be a 3 or 5 round fight! I will not finish that fight on purpose! I'll torture him!

— Siyar The Great (@SiyarTheGreat)

I guess Siyar is a BJ fan as well.

I love Siyar, but he's not ready for Rory yet. 

Siyar is the ****. But I don't think he should get Rory yet. At the MOST give him Kampmann.

Koscheck is calling Rory out I would love to see Rory put Josh in his place.

I hope Koscheck gets the Rory fight ... then finally Rory will get put in his place. 

I like Kos and all but what in the hell would he do with Rory? Throw a bunch of overhand rights that miss? Go for a couple takedowns that get defended? Bad fight for Kos.

Yet another guy who overrates Rory .... If BJ Penn got Rory to the ground twice. Even though he might not have done much, he got it there twice ... I;m pretty sure Koscheck could. 

Overate Rory? No I just give him his due. Koscheck has 2 weapons. A huge overhand right that if you're not ready for can put you down and his wrestling. Wrestling is where he has the edge on Rory but do you really think Kos is going to fight smart and use it? Kos thinks he's a striker. Rory has the far better stand up and he would show that if they fought.

 I don´t agree Bill. BJ has won and lost against a who is who of the best mma fighters ever. The fact that despite the beatings he´s taken from the likes of nick diaz, geroges, rory, prime matt hughes etc... NO ONE has EVER knocked him off his feet. That´s bad ass.

* Edited at 12.10.2012, 12:19 PM ET *

I didn't like Rory MacDonald coming into this fight, and after this fight I hate him even more. Some of his interviews coming into the fight, I don't know something about this guy just really erked me. All I kept on thinking is, "Man this guy is just a ******* tool." Then some of his in cage antics during the fight were just tastless, disrespectful, and uncalled for. I was thinking,"What is this Vaudeville?" It kind of reminded me of Rashad Evans when he was fighting on TUF 2, but worse. I knew that coming into this fight, BJ Penn was going to lose, because he was outweighed by MacDonald by quite a bit, and MacDonald is just so much taller and stronger, so when MacDonald started dancing and showboating, I'm thinking,"Wow dude. You're beating a guy that you outweigh by at least 30lbs, in a fight that is not that exciting, and you're going to act like you're really doing something?"

Some things that I took from this fight is, that I will never be a Rory MacDonald fan. I've learned to appreciate other fighters' styles that I'm not a big fan of like Brock Lesnar, Chael Sonnen, Chuck Liddell, GSP, Alistair Overeem, and Dominic Cruz, but I will never like or appreciate Rory MacDonald. BJ Penn should be fighting at 155 or 145, at 170 he's fighting guys that are 2"-6" taller than him, with far longer reaches, and 15-30lbs. heavier. The competition would be a little more even for him against guys like Ben Henderson, Gray Maynard, and Clay Guida than they would be against fighters the likes of Jon Fitch, Rory MacDonald, and Carlos Condit.

I know that BJ doesn't like to cut weight, but in today's MMA, you're not the faster guy with greater skill taking on a bigger, slower fighter with less, little, or no skill. You're taking on a guy that is 20-30lbs. heavier, every bit as athletic and quick or more, has the same skillset or better, and trains this **** 10-12 hours a day. It's not like Genki Sudo vs. Butterbean, Vitor Belfort vs. Tank Abbott, Royce Gracie vs. Kimo Leopoldo, or Heath Herring vs. Giant Silva. Today's MMA fighters, or more than just street fighters, brawlers, and thugs trying to make a fast buck to avoid having a real job. Today's MMA fighters are MMAthletes, that are skilled, intelligent, multi-facited fighters that are far evolved from the fighters of yesterday. In this day and age cutting weight is now a part of leveling the playing for most fighters. Frankie Edgar was the only exception that I've seen in this day and age, but now he's going to be fighting at 145. 

* Edited at 12.10.2012, 2:16 PM ET *

@jaykool I agree with you about Rory should not be showboating in a fight where he's picking apart a guy who's 25 pounds smaller then him. BJ is a LW and should be fighting there, I totally agree there too. One thing I can't understand is most of Tapology is saying BJ was too small for Rory he shouldn't have taken this fight so on and so on. But yet these same individuals want GSP/Silva? A fight that 2 weight classes seperate the two. I don't get it.

@ p4pgoat - I know what you mean, but for myself, I want to see the Silva/GSP superfight as a fan. If Anderson wins in convincing fashion, or it ends up looking like Rory MacDonald/BJ Penn, then yeah it wouldn't have made sense, but what if it's one of the most competitive fights in UFC/MMA history and either one of them wins?

It's my understanding from what Joe Rogan has said, that GSP walks around at about 200-205, and starts his cut from about 195 to make 170. Anderson Silva walks around at 215-220, but in training starts his cut to make 185 at about 200-205. That's a minimal difference compared to BJ Penn who is a natural 168, and Rory MacDonald who walks around at 200 or so.

I could be wrong on some of my numbers, but the Silva/GSP superfight is a little more even than you might think.

Firas Zahabi in several interviews has said GSP cuts from 190-192. It's very hard for him to cut/gain weight. On the contrary Anderson loses/gains weight very easily. That helps him a lot because he's able to cut so much weight and enjoy a size adavantage at mw. Even at lhw there aren't very many guys that have a very big size advantage on Anderson if at all. Ed Soares did an interview (with Silva in the background) saying he was at 225. So you're looking at a guy in GSP who's 5'10" 190 pounds fighting a guy who's 6'2" 225 pounds. There is no doubt in my mind though that it would be very very competitive because despite the massive size difference GSP is the more well rounded martial artist.

I guess the point is people are saying Rory beat BJ due to size. Not because he's better but due to size. If Anderson were to beat GSP people would say it's cuz Anderson is better and size would be an afterthought. The implementation of weight classes is the best thing to ever happen to mma. It ensures that we find out who the actual better fighter is not who's bigger. So we dismiss one fight because one guy is so much smaller but were begging for another fight where the size difference is just as big and we want that fight to decide the G.O.A.T? It's not logical but whatever.

@P4p  Thats not really accurate at all. Silva balloons up while not trainning for a fight. Anderson ballooned up and him in fight shape are not the same thing at all and is misleading to imply that anderson would be cutting from 225.  That like pretending Rampage is cutting from 250. Because he has several times ballooned to that weight while in the off season.  Anderson trainers have quite a few times stated that in training camps for 185 fights he around 205 pounds. Hell for the Bonnar fight they were saying he cut very little weight to fight him.  Silva cutting from far lower then your implying. He 205 in fight shape not 225.

"Anderson is only two pounds overweight, so now we are ready to consider the rest," said Camoes. "On Friday we will have a meeting with the doctor who takes care of his body to see how best to cut what remains, but he is very strong, with a job well done and a very good power. He usually trains at 93kg (205 lbs), cuts to 84kg (185 lbs), and then fights at about 90kg (198 lbs)."
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/425918/Anderson-Silva-already-near-weight-White-says-Bonnar-will-be-crazy-bigger

* Edited at 12.10.2012, 6:45 PM ET *

@franklin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISBoeGs68mo

 

 

Siyar vs the Immortal Matt Brown

When Rory hit BJ with that short, hard elbow with about a minute to go in the first, he really rocked him and BJ was staggering on ***** street.  

At that moment, BJ should have had the presence of mind to realize, "Hey, I better get this thing to the ground ASAP because this dude has superior firepower."

But BJ lacked the judgment and common sense to get out of harms' way.  

I also agree that Rory show-boating like a hot dog was very disrespectful to BJ.  But that was exactly why Rory did it.  He was pissed at BJ for challenging his eye-brow cut.  BJ questioned Rory's integrity and that cut Rory to the quick.  He didn't forgive or forget.  

BJ is not only a little WW, he is also a little LW.  He's only 5'9.  

At this moment, I am considering BJ as retired, until he says otherwise.

Nothing to do with judgement and common sense.  BJ lacked the strength and technique to score takedowns on Rory.

You don't just decide to take a guy like that down.  He'd stuff it easy.

agreed, but I still hope to see BJ back at 155... stop taking on these much bigger guys

have been out of the conversation about this event, because i couldn't watch it.
i think when the card is on free tv on the states it becomes harder to watch in "other ways".
i dont pay for it because i dont have the money, so save it ok?
i support the UFC in other ways.

about the fight, this was the one i was more excited about.
big BJ fan here, but im not angry about Rory taunting him at all.
its part of the fight, i think he was trying to get Penn to be more aggressive because he would have a better chance of finishing it that way.

Rory looked exceptional again, and my av was substituted to reflect that.
i will probably change it whenever i see something really impressive.
this guy cracked into my top 10 favorite fighters now.