St. Pierre vs. Diaz

This is the official discussion thread for St. Pierre vs. Diaz. Let's see what you've got.

Flacco has one. Come back and see me after he wins a couple more.

Of course Brady has had a better career thus far.I'm not delusional.

I was responding to "Regular season stats mean much less than playoff stats."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2YYrGrYynw


Watch this 2 minute clip and then explain how you couldn't respect the hell out of Brady.

After Hendricks, GSP will be needing new challengers.  Ellenberger and Maia might do but I doubt if many fans will be worked up for those fights.

What does a dominant champion do when he's cleaned out the division?  Set up a Bum of the Month Club?

The division is having a hard time producing credible, viable challengers for him.  THAT'S how great he is.

While Nick will having the time of his life insulting and punking the other hard contenders in the WW division.

I think Ellenberger and Maia are good choices for GSP and either of them can present problems for him but I think Maia will be his biggest challenge he is a big WW, he is strong has a decent stand up and I believe he can submit GSP it will be nice to watch GSP get grinded for a change, ha ha, Marquardt ciould present problems, but he'll probably lose and he needs to put a good streak first, I definetly see Condit vs GSP II  happening

@legacyofmisfortune Yeah, Maia and Ellenberger are the best challengers GSP has, specially Maia.

Maia's striking isn't really that good, however his judo and BJJ makes up for that. It'd be interesting to see how GSP did against someone he couldn't takedown as easily and someone who could toss him around with some sick judo throws like Maia.

Also Maia has the BJJ skills to submit GSP.

As much as I like Marquardt, he would an easy match up for GSP. GSP would just take him down and pound him and grind out a decision.

While I kind of agree with both of you, legacy & grizzly, I don't feel that either Jake or Demian will generate that much buzz in fandom.  Jake will in all likelihood turn out to be a rather routine and boring GSP win.  

Demian Maia could submit anyone in the division or even in MW for that matter, provided of course if he can get on your back.  He had no trouble transforming into a human backpack on Fitch, but Fitch lacked the offensive fire-power to hold him off.  

GSP has more offensive tools than Fitch.  It remains to be seen what happens if they meet.  But before he gets to a title shot, he must make sure he doesn't lose.  Time will tell.

Yesterday, I made the argument that those who like Nick more than GSP, are probably preferring what Nick stands for, than only Nick of himself.  In other words, you like Nick because he represents to you brutal honesty, transparency, 'keeping it real', and telling it like it is.  Not being fake.

And if there is any relevance in that argument, it also stands to reason that Nick's fans don't really care for GSP because of what HE represents to them.  Respectfulness, polish, professionalsim, courtesy.  GSP thinks before he speaks, unlike Nick.  GSP doesn't say everything on his mind.  He plays his cards closer to his vest.  He is more controlled.  

And for those reasons, Nick's fans feel they can trust Nick before they can trust GSP.  GSP comes off as more establishment, more guarded, more sneaky, more snarky, more to be mistrusted.  Nick's fans feel that a person who says the first thing that crosses their mind is likely more honest, believable and trust-worthy.  While someone like GSP, who has much more to lose by making a verbal misstep, gaffe, or faux pas is someone that they can't believe, support, get behind or root for.

Add to this psychological profile, the fact that GSP is perceived as fighting not to lose, uninterested in finishing fights, and less willing to take chances, risk it all, throw caution to the wind, and go for broke, roll the dice and let the chips fall where they might.

And if anyone can relate to all this, fine.  But, if you really prefer Nick's values over GSP's, please at least be honest about it.

And if you are willing to be that brutally honest, you would support whole-heartedly the following scenario.

After the fight, you would have much preferred GSP to adopt Nick's values and said the following to Joe Rogan in the post-fight in-cage interview.

"See, I told you all Nick was nothing.  He's a loud-mouthed punk with nothing but a bad attitude.  He never hurt me, he never was in charge or control.  It was child's play to beat him.  Just another routine fight for me.

And he doesn't deserve a rematch.  His wrestling was a joke, his stand-up not enough.  You all thought I was afraid to stand with him and I proved you all WRONG.  

I hate this loud, disrespectful punk, and wanted to shut him up and now I have!  Next!"

Those words would have represented Nick's values.  So, if you really prefer Nick's values to GSP's, you would have relished GSP going off on him, disrespecting him, punking him, rubbing his nose in it.  Right!  

But instead, GSP remained true to his own personal values, and went way out of his way to give Nick his credit.  He actually lauded the man who accused him of steroids, ducking him, pretending to be hurt, and calling him out in the most disrespectful ways.  And Nick thanked him for giving him that much credit and respect!

He said Nick was the best boxer in the division, and asked the Montreal audience not to boo Nick.  He asked everyone to give Nick a big round of applause!

Still hate GSP's values?  Be consistent.

* Edited at 03.19.2013, 1:30 PM ET *

@Bill  I kinds of agree with you too, first Maia needs to have a couple more wins, and it wouldn´t hurt him if he finished his opponents, then he may get the titleshot but in no way he has a sure win, GSP has a lot of tools at his disposal and has great timing and that can complicate things for anyone, I disagree a bit when you say Ellenberger would be a routine win for GSP, I think the odds favor GSP in that match but I don´t think it will be that easy for him.

If GSP fights Demian Maia, it will be somewhat interesting.  Sure, Demian has the awesome submission game and he looked like a rock star fighting Jon Fitch.

But GSP has a lot more offensive tools to hold Demian off.  And even if Demian closes the distance and gets his hands on GSP, GSP is a LONG way from Jon Fitch.

GSP is much stronger than Fitch or Maia.  He is not bigger than them but he is stronger.  His wrestling is better than Fitch's.  So, I don't expect Maia to be able to ride his back like he did for 15 minutes against Fitch.

I expect Maia will be yet another routine win for GSP, albeit in a different way.  It is not even a certainty that Maia would be capable of getting the fight to the ground.  Jake Shields couldn't.  And even if Maia' ground game is superior to Shield's, there is that all-important phase of having to get the fight to the ground in the first place.  And that is not a certainty.  Would be mildly interesting, nonetheless.

Ellenberger's a easier fight for GSP, than Maia is.

Sure GSP has some great grappling skills, but he's never fought a grappler with the skills, size and strength that Maia has.

Look at how Maia handled Chael when they fought and Chael's much bigger than GSP and one of the best wrestlers in MMA.

I'm not saying Maia's going to beat GSP because I know better than that, but Maia is GSP's toughest fight.

Maia is the darkhorse at WW and I said he would be the day it was announced he was fighting Dong Hyun Kim. WW is where Maia belongs and WW is where Maia will shine. 

And so ends the high-tide point of Nick Diaz's MMA career.  From now on, we'll still have the satisfaction of watching Nick fight the rest of the contenders.  

Rematch Condit, MacDonald, Hendricks, Koscheck, Maia, Ellenberger, Story, Kampmann, Kim, rematch Sanchez, etc.

* Edited at 03.20.2013, 1:16 AM ET *

@bill and he could only beat maybe two of those guys

I don't see how anyone could know that until it happens.  But Nick is normally entertaining even when he loses.

I think Nick could beat most of the guys except for Hendricks and Ellenberger who with the right gameplan wrestling based could grind out a unanimous decision like St. Pierre did.

In the WW division, I think Nick cannot beat GSP, Condit, Hendricks, MacDonald or Maia.  That is only one man's opinion.  But I wouldn't mind in the least to watch Nick try.

In a five rounder I think Nick has a shot of beating Hendrick and Maia. In fact I may even pick him against Maia. I feel Maia has looked impressive but is not going to keep looking this impressive. I think for example in the Fitch fight, Fitch was physically weaker then Maia by noticeable margin. I think this has more to do with Fitch losing much of his size when he switch to being a vegan. I think that was the worst idea he has ever had. He became noticably weaker in his last few fights. I know he stopped being vegan for his last fight, but I think the damage was done. I think he had been this way for a few years and he had lose a fair amount of size and strength. He went from cutting from high 190's to cutting from 185 range. 

* Edited at 03.20.2013, 8:04 AM ET *

I think if Diaz and Maia fought that Maia could easily take Diaz down and if not submit him since Diaz has good bjj, he could at least hold him down and get the decision.

I don't think he could for 5 rounds. I think Diaz by the third would be stuffing him. I highly doubt Maia can keep the pace Diaz can set.  Also don't think he have nearly the luck holding Diaz down that he did with Fitch. Diaz is  larger and  then Fitch. He also much better off his back.