Kuivanen vs. Salas

This is the official discussion thread for Kuivanen vs. Salas. Let's see what you've got.

salas is going to kill him!!!!!!!

Do you know him or train with him?

Another tough fight to pick.

Kuivanen is the number 2 lighweight in Europe, but Salas comes from a good camp (Grudge Training Center).

I'm leaning towards Kuivanen, an experienced guy with a good overall game.

Salas is a beast...Excited to see him making his UFC debut! He earned this by beating Joe Ellenberger in Ellenberger's last fight before the UFC gave him the call up!!

I picked Salas for the decision.  He did beat Emerson and gave Jake's younger bro his first loss recently.  But I don't know, seems like it will be a close fight

77% of Tapology is gonna be wrong picking against Salas!

Salas is a stud wrestler, and his gas tank is great. Good ground and pound as well

I've been going back and forth about this one all week. It wasn't till I talked to Joe via ****ter and he told me he had a off night, but Salas was a beast and deserved to win, that I finalized my pick. I'm gonna **** Excalibur again and ask him how he thinks Salas will do.

* Edited at 02.13.2012, 1:36 AM ET *

Here's the links, he didn't know much about the Swed, but said before Salas was a tough dude, so if Jake identical twin brother who is a bad ass mofo himself, give Salas props I gotta go with him.

Jeremy Gullion @jgullion77

@JoeEllenberger Hey my man how's training going? Hope your health is holding up great, been praying for U. How do U think Justin Salas cont.

8:40 PM - 12 Feb 12 via web · Details

Jeremy Gullion @jgullion77

@JoeEllenberger Is gonna do against his @UFC opponent this Wednesday in Omaha? I hope to see you in the octagon real soon, ur bad ass bro!!!

8:48 PM - 12 Feb 12 via web · Details


Joe Ellenberger @JoeEllenberger

@jgullion77 Training is good! I don't know much about his opponent, but it should be a good scrap!

In reply to Jeremy Gullion 10:19 PM - 12 Feb 12 via Twitter for iPhone

Joe Ellenberger @JoeEllenberger

@jgullion77 @ufc Thanks for the support!!

In reply to Jeremy Gullion 10:19 PM - 12 Feb 12 via Twitter for iPhone

* Edited at 02.13.2012, 2:22 AM ET *

Here's our earlier conversation and links about how Joe is doing (he has that very dangerous and rare blood disorder or something to that effect) and about Salas;

https://twitter.com/#!/JoeEllenberger

Jeremy Gullion @jgullion77

@JoeEllenberger Hey bro I just found out U suffered UR first loss as a pro, did the guy just have better wrestling and hold U down 4 the W?

9:32 AM - 21 Jan 12 via web · Details

https://twitter.com/#!/JoeEllenberger

Jeremy Gullion @jgullion77

@JoeEllenberger I definitely didn't C that loss coming, R U still N good health & good spirits I hope? Still really looking forward to con..

9:34 AM - 21 Jan 12 via web · Details

https://twitter.com/#!/JoeEllenberger

Jeremy Gullion @jgullion77

@JoeEllenberger Seeing U in the @UFC real soon! UR a tremendous talent w/ A world of potential, U'll learn a gr8 deal frm the loss con...

9:36 AM - 21 Jan 12 via web · Details

Jeremy Gullion @jgullion77

@JoeEllenberger & B back stronger sharper, hungrier & better then ever! Maybe 1 more impressive W & U should get the call 2 the @ufc 4 sure!

9:39 AM - 21 Jan 12 via web · Details

Jeremy Gullion @jgullion77

@JoeEllenberger Im 1 of UR biggest supporters & fans 4 sure! Stay awesome homie -signed- @jgullion77 / @rorschach

9:42 AM - 21 Jan 12 via web · Details


Joe Ellenberger @JoeEllenberger

@jgullion77 @rorschach Holy 5 tweets! Haha just had an off night, def not better than me, but had a better performance than me for sure.

Hide conversation 3:04 PM - 21 Jan 12 via Twitter for iPhone · Details

Joe Ellenberger @JoeEllenberger

@jgullion77 @rorschach I am in good health, good spirits, surrounded by gr8 people & training partners & coaches, learned a lot & I am a

Hide conversation 3:06 PM - 21 Jan 12 via Twitter for iPhone · Details

Joe Ellenberger @JoeEllenberger

• Close

@jgullion77 @rorschach better man & fighter because of it. Thanks for the support!Tune in for @EllenbergerMMA on Feb 15! #EllenbergerNation

Hide conversation 3:07 PM - 21 Jan 12 via Twitter for iPhone · Details

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Salas just beat Ellenburger's brother, giving him his lone defeat in 13 fights. Before that he beat UFC vet Rob Emerson.

Salas vs Ellenberger, ...interesting they fight in a cage but it's a square!

and a Kuivanen highlight video...

I've watched Kuivanens last 5 fights and Salas's last 4 fights for almost 2 hours of combined tape of both.  Kuivanen attempted two subs in that entire hour of in-ring action in his recent fights, he's become more of punches in bunches striker with a Guida pace and cardio so he wants this to be a 15 minute striking battle imo.  He wins a lot of his fights by punching someone back all the way to the cage with combo's and then flurries as their back is the cage.  The single person that switched levels as he mounts his offense going forward (Radcliffe) successfully took him down with a double but unfortunately the fight ended between rounds due to injury (a mouse under the eye from an Anton punch).  Anton was knocked down more than he knocked down his opponent in the fights I watched but he was never dazed.  In another fight a fighter with a sub .500 record, after an Anton slip, laid on top of him in his guard for 3 minutes while Anton tried for a Kimura.  The next round with the fighter on top in full guard again, Anton did a slick armbar attempt to back mount transition and submitted him with a RNC.

Of note, Salas doesn't stay in guards of guys with submission skills, his takedown when facing a guy like Anton is more of lifting a guy up and dropping him on his back without following to the ground, unless it's Hughes-style and he can land in side control.  Also he doesn't sit in anyones guard, he stands out of their guard holding their ankles kicking at their hammies and throwing a few punches to the body and head.  This may be because he's not as comfortable in his submission defense, but regardless it works for him and he stays busy enough standing up with his opponents back on the mat for the ref not to step in.  At one point he stood up from landing in side control after a slam to go back to his position of holding the ankles and throwing some kicks and punches if that says anything.

Both guys have cardio for days so no one should gas in this one, both guys look like they could go 10 rounds in every fight I saw, Anton will throw more punches, but since he's generally moving forwards while throwing, I have to assume Salas will take every opportunity to switch levels and dump him like Anton has never seen in Finland.  It all comes down to how quickly Anton can get back up because it's hard to submit a guy who's standing, holding your ankles, rather than attempting any passes or even entering your guard.  Because of this, I think Salas takes the decision.

* Edited at 02.14.2012, 6:02 PM ET *

good info there i came to the conclusion to pick Salas as well so i'm happy to hear someone who researched more say the same...

I picked Salas because his last 2 wins have been against Rob Emerson and Joe Ellenberger....both tough guys

Wow surprised to see 74% for the Fin here...

I find it funny that the % on sherdog is completely opposite.

Kuivanen looks pretty tough and fought guys with good records, but the thing is they were all overseas mostly in finland, so I dunno how much credit I can give him. It says he trains at American Top Team, but that isn't even half true, because his main training is based out of TeamMMAFinland. So basically it's his first fight here in the U.S. I have to go with Sala's here, because he did beat 2 very tough guys in his last 2 fights and got the W (Joe Ellenberger & Emerson). and has the better credibility training constantly at Grudge center with better guys and not to mention is a collegiate wrestler (Not sure what Division). His wrestling should be the key to winning the fight.

He was DI at Wyoming.