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Question For Tapology: Has MMA Become A Pro Wrestling Worked Shoot at this point?
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07.08.2018 | 1:47 AM ET
Something has been rolling around in my head for the past year to year and a half that I have been in denial about, but after tonight with Brock Lesnar made me comfortable enough to ask. And that is, has MMA just been like Pro Wrestling all along? Is this just a recent trend? Or am I just losing it? And I am not talking organized crime style fixed fights like boxing and so on where the commissions are corrupt. That **** happens in MMA and we know that with incidents in Pride. I am talking the whole nine yards down to the finish of fights. This whole line of thinking began for me when Ari Emanuel started calling MMA "sports entertainment". The same term Vince McMahon uses to describe pro wrestling. As time has gone on with the rise of Conor McGregor and so on, it really has me wondering.
Maybe it's because I am still caught up in the whole moment of Brock Lesnar and Daniel Cormier having a moment looking as scripted as WWE that Dana White gave Bellator **** for years back. I just needed to get this off my chest. So what are your thoughts? Do you also have these feelings with regards to the sport or am I going off the deep end like Alex Jones does about false flag terrorist attacks, gay bombs being put into the tap water and FEMA camps being constructed by the government among other things?
* Edited at 07.08.2018, 2:00 AM ET *
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Responses
07.08.2018 | 2:24 AM ET
Moving on, are some fights fixed in the sense that they are either thrown by the fighters. or the equivalent of the spread is manipulated to ensure a certain betting outcome? Yes. Absolutely. There is simply no way to legislate against this happening. Even if you utterly reject the parent promotion buying off fighters to ensure that certain highly lucrative fights get booked, at the end of all things, you are talking about two guys in a cage. I have absolutely no doubt it happens, and I have absolutely no doubt it happens more than we like to think. Taking dives is as old as combat sports will be around as long as combat sports exist.
Moving on to what we just saw:
Brock being there was scripted, and he was always going to get the winner of whoever won the fight. That was predetermined before the outcome of Miocic vs Cormier was known. But that is not the same thing as fixing a fight. Lesnar is the draw, not DC nor Miocic. He could fight either of them and the PPV's would be rate roughly the same numbers.The fact he has done nothing to earn a fight for the belt doesn't matter, because it's a fight that will make money.
Thus comes in the 'entertainment' side of the sport. In a real sport, which MMA is not, ranked competitors face ranked competitors, and there is no B plan. For example, a champion in whatever sporting event who competes in the Olympics doesn't get a shot at gold a few months down the track, after the Olympics has ended, because he was injured and couldn't make the date. There are no 'interim' medals. There are no short notice replacement fill-in competitors. That's real sports.
MMA is not like that, and UFC especially isn't. They do a reasonably feasible job of creating a matchmaking system with some meritocratic basis. There are weight classes, for example, and most of the time, the bookings are based on linear rankings. Most of the time, but not always; if a fight is going to make big bucks, it happens despite the rankings.
It's an industry dependent on people tuning in, unless people do that it's inviable,, and the best way to ensure that that keeps happening is by putting on fights that people want to watch. Sometimes that means shafting the right contenders. And it's quite a balancing act. UFC still has to do that while maintaining the appearance of being a legitimate rankings-based sports promotion. Their motto is 'As real as it gets' after all. If they go too far down the road of entertainment, and neglect the sporting aspect, they will tank their brand.
There is a one Golden rule of Business that has always served me well; there is no compulsive shopper so deranged in existence that they want to hand over money for a thing they believe, or perceive, to be not-for-value or ow low quality. That person doesn't exist.
That said, finding out what people want is no easy feat. However, the UFC know the reason people tune in to MMA and not wrestling is because the damage is real. Real violence is what people want. And that brings me to the second golden rule of business, which is that there is nothing in existence as fickle as markets and human beings.
You only have to look at how hypocritical we are as fans. We decry promotions for underpaying fighters, and scream about their rights, but we also concomitantly want to pay as little for cards as possible. We condemn boring fights, but we demand violence and action from fighters and ridicule them when they don't deliver it whilst at the same time criticize the promotions for paying them pittances to get brain damage. The superstars we elevate to demigod status are separated from utter disinterest or even contempt by as little as two consecutive wins or losses.
Promotions are ****** mostly because we, the fans, are ******.They cater to our whims, which are obscene, bloodthirsty, fairweather, largely irresolvable and absurd, and if they do not they die like flies at the end of summer.
And then we complain about monopolies and/or the lack of promotions.
We talk about how we want fairness, justice, virtue--because it's a kind of virtue signaling and it costs us nothing whilst generates cultural capital.. But absolutely nothing about the way we literally participate as consumers in MMA suggests that we actually want any of those things.
At the heart of every labyrinth is a minotaur.
And in my experience, human nature is the most common species out there.
About Ngannou vs Lewis
That fight was not fixed. What just transpired was two fighters who had the identical approach to the fight and had it drilled into their heads to not vary from said plan for weeks and weeks. That plan was 'Don't lead and countered because you're gonna get starched, wait for the lead opening, counter, and do the starching'.
The ****show we just witnessed was what happens when both fighters stick to the same gameplay which is to do nothing and wait for an opening. Basically, an opening never comes, and they just dance around looking ********, occasionally landing some pitter-patter.
That fight didn't help Ngannou, Lewis, nor the UFC's chances of making money in any way shape or fashion.
It doesn't make sense for either guy to have thrown the fight. That would not have had any affect on who Brock fights next, because he wouldn't have fought the winner, nor the loser of that fight.Brock was always getting the winner of Miocic vs DC.
No need to tinfoil hat about it.
Moving on:
I have no doubt that UFC's relationship with USADA is murky, and that one hand washes the other. I don't see a lot of high profile fighters who sell tickets getting busted. Jones is an exception, but he's an utter PR ******* disaster and is probably more trouble than he's worth as he is terrible for the brand.In fact I would not be at all surprised if Jones getting pulled from the DC fight was basically the company doing its level best to utterly ruin him. That was vindictive. I believe that UFC's partnership with USADA buys them the ability to sweep certain indiscretions under the carpet. USADA isn't Federal, it's private--and ultimately they control rights of discrimination.
And finally, it's often not necessary to fix fights, because by simply playing the cards a certain way, and booking certain people against certain people, you direct the outcomes anyway. And that is because styles make fights. It's amazing what promotions can achieve by having fighters fight certain people at certain opportune, or inopportune times. I've seen it in Boxing since forever. UFC is not better. They do it too.
A fairly long winded response, but again my ultimate answer is no, the UFC is not 'fixed'. But that also doesn't mean it isn't corrupt.
* Edited at 07.08.2018, 3:30 AM ET *
07.08.2018 | 3:40 PM ET
"I don't want to have to do this living. I just walk around. I want to be swept off my feet, you know? I want my children to have magical powers. I am prepared for amazing things to happen. I can handle it."
07.08.2018 | 4:01 PM ET
"This is Prize-Fighting, IDGAF about your family or your problems - MassaBruce"
07.08.2018 | 4:10 PM ET
Super long but great read:
"The article is originally from 2007.buffaloblue, May 13, 2012Report #1UnlikeReply
The Overlooked Origins of Mixed Martial Arts
By Todd Martin
When it comes to the history of mixed martial arts, there is one dominant narrative. The Gracie family brought Brazilian jiu jitsu to the United States, and at UFC 1 a new sport was born. In fact, the story of mixed martial arts has two primary branches. MMA grew as a business and a sport in two locations: the United States and Japan. One story of the growth of MMA involves the popularization of the sport in America. But the other is a completely different story. It’s one that many American fans would be uncomfortable with, and one that is not widely known or understood in this country. It starts in the unlikeliest of locations.
In the United States, professional wrestling has an extremely negative stigma. It is thought of by many as a form of entertainment aimed at the lowest common denominator. But this does not necessarily have to be so. Professional wrestling has been successful all over the world, with a variety of different styles and appeals. One place where professional wrestling has always been held in higher regard is in Japan.
Traditional Japanese professional wrestling was worked, just like American professional wrestling. This means that the winners of the matches were determined ahead of time, and the wrestlers didn’t try to hurt each other. Shoots, where the combatants legitimately try to defeat each other, were uncommon. However, Japanese professional wrestling sharply diverged stylistically from American professional wrestling over the past thirty-five years. American pro wrestling became more over-the-top and unrealistic, while Japanese pro wrestling became more realistic and sports-oriented.
A predominant theme of Japanese pro wrestling became the battle to prove that Japanese pro wrestlers were tougher than athletes from other disciplines. This theme was embraced by not only the fans of pro wrestling, but also by the wrestlers themselves.
Antonio Inoki was the biggest star of New Japan Pro Wrestling, and he brought in a variety of combat athletes to fight him in “mixed martial arts” bouts. The results were predetermined for Inoki to win and prove his supremacy, but his opponents were real athletes like judo star Willem Ruska and karate star Willie Williams. The most famous was Muhammad Ali, who decided upon his arrival in Japan that he didn’t want to lose to Inoki. That led to a shoot, where Inoki lied on his back and kicked at Ali’s legs.
During this period, there was also an evolution behind the scenes. Some of that generation’s toughest wrestlers like Karl Gotch and Billy Robinson made their way to Japan. Gotch was a feared submission wrestler, and he began training Japanese wrestlers with an eye towards what really works. In the dojos of Japanese professional wrestling, young wrestlers were learning legitimate submission wrestling techniques.
While wrestling in front of the camera was still worked, behind the scenes wrestlers were learning how to shoot. Ken Shamrock trained with Karl Gotch and remembers the workouts as being particularly brutal. “He’d sit in the office, drink wine, and occasionally he would come out there and work us until we couldn’t walk any more,” Shamrock says.
Frank Shamrock adds, “The wrestlers learned from Karl Gotch and the old catch as catch can wrestling style. The concept was extreme muscular and cardiovascular conditioning and finite technical movement.”
Inoki’s feuds with athletes from other disciplines over time carried over into reality. Josh Barnett wrestled for New Japan Pro Wrestling, and fought for Japan’s biggest MMA organizations. He explains, “Judo guys and karate guys showed up at the dojo because of advertisements saying pro wrestling is the strongest martial art in the world. Those guys would show up to prove that wrong. They’d close the doors and the New Japan guys would trash everybody.”
Barnett attributes this competitiveness to a broader Japanese mentality. “The Japanese have a very battle oriented culture,” Barnett says. “They like making one thing compete against another. They have a real passion for seeing what comes out on top. The country took to that vision of pro wrestling: seriousness without gimmicks.”
The Japanese infatuation with reality continued into the 1980s, and the rise of a new star, Akira Maeda. Maeda wrestled for New Japan, but was angry about the less realistic style and the fact he wasn’t promoted as the company’ top star. After a tumultuous reign he broke for good with the company in 1988 and reformed the Universal Wrestling Federation. He was joined in the UWF by a number of younger stars, including Nobuhiko Takada, Minoru Suzuki, Masakatsu Funaki, Kiyoshi Tamura and Ken Shamrock.
The UWF promised a more realistic style than New Japan, and promoted itself as if it were real. This perception was bolstered by Maeda’s chaotic history. Maeda was involved in pro wrestling matches that disintegrated into shoots with major stars including Andre the Giant, Satoru Sayama and Riki Choshu.
Ken Shamrock believes many of the fans were fooled into believing the UWF was real. “Everything they did with punches and kicks and submissions would work in a real life situation, so it was hard to tell if they were being applied or not applied,” Shamrock says. “It was hard to tell what was real and what wasn’t.”
The results of the UWF were still predetermined, but the business was moving more towards reality. This new direction was a smashing success. The first major UWF show sold out a 12,000 seat arena in 15 minutes, with high ticket prices. The main event of that show featured Maeda defeating karate star Gerard Gordeau, over five years before Gordeau would make it to the finals of UFC 1 against Royce Gracie.
Maeda himself avoided legitimate competition, although some fighters believe he would have done well if he did shoots at his athletic peak in the late 80s. Ken Shamrock notes, “In the gym, when they would go for real, Maeda was the man. No one could touch him.” It is likely that Maeda’s abilities are inflated to some degree because of his stardom, but he also had no incentive to compete in shoots.
Josh Barnett points out, “Sponsors and television insisted Maeda needed to be on the card or they didn’t want to air the product. When you have to carry the entire success of your promotion, it becomes way too risky to go out there and fight. [Working] was a necessity.”
While the UWF still promoted pro wrestling in front of the camera, the promotion’s wrestlers were preparing for shoots behind the scenes. Ken Shamrock’s initiation into the UWF focused on what he could do in a shoot. Shamrock was doing American pro wrestling, and was given a UWF tape by fellow wrestler Dean Malenko. Shamrock was impressed, and given a tryout in Miami. He had a wrestling and boxing background, and was able to dominate the other fighters at the tryout.
Shamrock was then brought to Japan, where he was given a two hour tryout with a fresh sparring partner every thirty minutes. He did well against the first two, but the last two were Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki. Funaki and Suzuki tapped Shamrock repeatedly, and Shamrock concluded he needed to learn these techniques. He would go to Japan three weeks prior to his matches, and train with Funaki, Suzuki, Yoshiaki Fujiwara and Yoshiki Takahashi. Shamrock’s experiences were typical for UWF wrestlers. They were training to be legitimate submission wrestlers, but didn’t yet have the outlet to fully demonstrate their skills.
The crowning moment for the UWF was a sold-out show at the Tokyo Dome in November 1989 that drew 60,000 fans and grossed $5.6 million. This quick and overwhelming success caused friction behind the scenes. The group’s president and promoter Shinji Jin wanted UWF wrestlers to feud with wrestlers from another, less realistic Japanese wrestling promotion. Maeda felt strongly about a legitimate looking product, and didn’t want to do “phony” wrestling.
There was a power struggle, and the popular promotion imploded. Jin fired all the wrestlers and the promotion ceased to exist after a December 1, 1990 show where Masakatsu Funaki beat Ken Shamrock in the main event. UWF left behind a strong legacy. 27 of the 31 shows promoted by the UWF sold out, and the era of mixed martial arts was knocking at the door.
With the dissolution of the UWF, key players from the promotion went in different directions. A number of new fighting promotions were created, with varying degrees of reality.
The biggest success was UWF International, or UWFI. The UWFI was a worked promotion built around Nobuhiko Takada, who derided the legitimacy of other Japanese wrestling companies. UWFI also featured young wrestlers Kazushi Sakuraba and Kiyoshi Tamura, who went on to have great success in mixed martial arts.
Akira Maeda formed his own promotion, RINGS. RINGS was initially a worked promotion, built around Maeda. Over time, it would begin to mix works with shoots. Eventually, it would become an all shoot promotion, featuring major players like Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira and Fedor Emelianenko.
While RINGS and UWFI continued to promote worked products, another group of UWF wrestlers decided to create something different. Pancrase was formed, and it became the first widely popular Japanese shoot promotion. Ken Shamrock explains the mentality of the Pancrase founders: “They got tired of putting over guys that were 40 and 50 years old. They were better, but they weren’t getting the chance to show they were better. They went in and said they were going to start a real organization where it’s a shoot and the real guys are going to win.”
Masakatsu Funaki, Minoru Suzuki and Ken Shamrock left the UWF first for Pro Wrestling Fujiwara Gumi, a new pro wrestling company. PWFG was mostly worked, but began to feature shoots. The first shoot fights of PWFG took place October 4, 1992. Pro wrestlers submitted kickboxers in both bouts, with Ken Shamrock defeating Don Nakaya Neilsen and Yoshiki Takahashi defeating Superman Sattasaba. Those fights weren’t presented differently than the other matches on the show, even though the rest of the card was worked. Funaki, Suzuki and Shamrock wanted to have more real matches, and they left Fujiwara Gumi to create Pancrase.
Pancrase debuted in September 1993, and a noticeable difference from its predecessors was just how quickly the fights ended. Josh Barnett, who will be commentating Pancrase shows available on ImaginAsian TV starting November 7 at 8PM, notes: “The matches finished in a minute or two minutes. For a lot of people, that was shocking, because pro wrestling matches never ended that fast.” The first show featured only 13 minutes and 5 seconds of fighting.
Pancrase’s biggest star was Masakatsu Funaki. Funaki was the Japanese hero, an incredibly talented fighter who battled against other top fighters from around the world. Josh Barnett describes him as the “symbol of Japan” and Frank Shamrock labels Funaki “the golden boy” of Pancrase.
Ken Shamrock cites Funaki as his best tutor. “I learned the most from him,” Shamrock says. “He took time and worked with me and other boys and took me under his wing to bring me along. He saw something in me and groomed me.” It was apropos that in the main event of the first Pancrase card, Ken Shamrock defeated his mentor Funaki.
Funaki was ahead of the MMA game, because he had trained in submission wrestling techniques from an early age and was coming into his physical peak in the early 90s. Funaki defeated all the top stars of Pancrase, including Minoru Suzuki, Ken Shamrock, Frank Shamrock and Bas Rutten. He also made sure to entertain the crowd, and build the fledgling promotion.
Frank Shamrock says, “Funaki was like a mad scientist. He took the idea of submissions to an even higher level than the rest of the Japanese contingent. He had this insatiable desire to learn more and push his body harder. And as an entertainer he understood the need to entertain.”
Pancrase’s other big Japanese star was Minoru Suzuki, who played the role of bad guy. It was a role he cultivated well. Ken Shamrock says that Suzuki “didn’t have time for people. He’d rather kick them in the head than to try to help them. He was a good bad guy.” Frank Shamrock adds that “he was the quintessential bad boy, Japanese style, which meant slicked back hair and dark outfits.” Josh Barnett was a big fan of Suzuki and trained with him, but admits that Suzuki is “mean as (expletive).”
While Suzuki played the role of villain, his technical prowess was highly respected by his peers. Frank Shamrock notes, “His technical ability and knowledge and coordination were beyond anything I could come up with.” Bas Rutten adds simply, “Suzuki was a wizard on the ground, very fast.”
Rutten was another of the most successful fighters in the early days of Pancrase. Rutten was an excellent kickboxer, and a number of Japanese promotions expressed interest in him. He chose Pancrase to demonstrate his true skills. “RINGS had a similar setup, but it was fixed,” Rutten notes. “When Pancrase came, I told them that if they wanted me they had to make sure it was real.”
Frank Shamrock recalls that Rutten’s standup intimidated the other fighters. “His kickboxing was devastating,” Shamrock says. “It was something everybody feared. The other thing he had was a basic understanding of real fighting. I consider Pancrase a sporting activity. Bas had that street fighter mentality.”
Rutten had trouble early in his Pancrase career with the ground game, so he switched his focus to submissions. Rutten learned submissions in an unconventional manner. He watched tapes and taught himself. “I’ve been very blessed in that what I see I can do right away,” Rutten says. “I’d watch fights and if I saw someone win with a move I’d try it on my students. Every time I came in with new techniques and found new ways to set them up.” With an improved submission game, Rutten had a long undefeated streak before leaving Pancrase.
Frank Shamrock was another successful product of Pancrase. He trained with his adoptive brother Ken for six months, and then trained in Japan for another two months prior to his Pancrase debut. He became one of Pancrase’s top fighters, but initially not much was expected of him.
“I surprised everybody with my desire to win and my physical attributes,” Frank recalls. “I think I was there to be an opponent for many people, but I wouldn’t give up. Eventually I became respected and expected to win.”
Many of these Pancrase stars would have had even greater success later were it not for the grueling damage they took in Pancrase. Many Pancrase fighters competed every six weeks, and injuries built up. Frank Shamrock notes, “It was a submission oriented game, so most of the finishing holds were joint locks. Over time the cumulative result of the tearing of the tendons was devastating.” Physical deterioration cut short the competitive peaks of Funaki, Suzuki and Rutten, among others.
While Pancrase was a shoot promotion, it did not fully escape its pro wrestling heritage. This occasionally resulted in predetermined finishes. Ken Shamrock is reluctant to speak fully on the subject, but acknowledges “there were a couple times I had to do things I didn’t want to do.” A few predetermined finishes aside, the more common suspicion about the early days of Pancrase was carrying.
In 1993 and 1994, Funaki and Suzuki had greater knowledge than most of the rest of the roster. They had been training in submission wrestling for years, and understood the ins and outs of the game. Thus, in order to entertain the crowd, Funaki and Suzuki would occasionally give their opponents opportunities to create drama before putting them away.
Opinions differ on how common this was. Bas Rutten is vehement that he was never asked to lose and never heard of anyone being asked to lose, but also acknowledges, “There were some fights among the Japanese that looked too fluid.”
Josh Barnett points out, “When you’re that good, you can have a guy thinking he’s doing so much better than he expected and have no idea that they’re just letting you last like a cat playing with a mouse.”
Frank Shamrock says that there was “most definitely” carrying in Pancrase. He adds, “I know for a fact those guys were light years ahead of everyone else and they were so good that they would go towards entertainment before they finished a match.” This concern for entertainment helped the sport to thrive. Kazushi Sakuraba would similarly play around with inferior opponents years later.
Pancrase continues to exist to present day, but its status as Japan’s top shoot promotion was taken by a new company. In 1997, the Pride Fighting Championships debuted. It is unlikely it would have been created, let alone thrived, without its pro wrestling predecessors.
The demise of the UWFI pro wrestling promotion meant top star Nobuhiko Takada was looking for a payday. The success of Pancrase created curiosity in how Takada would do in a shoot match. Takada was Pride’s early drawing card, and kept the promotion alive through initial growing pains. When Takada was exposed as a fighter, another UWFI pro wrestler took his place as Pride’s top drawing card. His name was Kazushi Sakuraba, and he turned Pride into a behemoth.
Pride’s success cannot be fully understood without realizing its roots. “Without UWFI, without RINGS, without Pancrase, there wouldn’t have been Pride. Pride was built on the back of pro wrestling,” Josh Barnett says simply. UFC and Pride shaped the face of mixed martial arts, but they came out of very different traditions and were aimed at very different audiences. MMA’s history is the story of not one, but both.
Todd Martin has covered mixed martial arts for the Los Angeles Times, Wrestling Observer, SI.com and CBSSports.com."
* Edited at 07.08.2018, 4:10 PM ET *
"This is Prize-Fighting, IDGAF about your family or your problems - MassaBruce"
07.08.2018 | 4:31 PM ET
For 1 brock vs dc makes way more then stipe vs brock
Stipe cant draw its well known thats why they brought dc up. Dc draws more.
For two stipe got payed way more then ever b4 y?
To get ko'd and step aside
3. That **** in the ring with brock and dc was %100 scripted pre planned garbage
P.s. just like connars bus fake attack. Ufc and most promotions only care about money
More people watch cause of ********. Not like us cause of love of martial arts.
P.s. n'gannou vs lewis is one of the most poorly obvious fixed fights ever.
Lewis new and said in intdrvdiws he had to get a ko for a title shot. Surprise surprize way more money
On ppv for dc vs lesner then any other heavy wekght fight.
Both guys payed to suck and gdt out of the way for dc lesner.
If i didn't stop paying for ppv and streMing instead i would feel really stupid right now.
And we all know way to many suspicious **** happens for it not to b fixed. Not all fights but some. Two fighters even came out and said ufc offerd them mondy to take a dive .1 was wanderlay silva i cant remember the secound.
All the money thdy make from us and u think thdy wouldn't want to control it as much as possible.
I would if i was dana white.
07.08.2018 | 7:17 PM ET
"I am trained in gorilla warfare" - Stay Ready
07.08.2018 | 10:13 PM ET
All pro sports r fixed.
Mma is a half sport half entertainment side show
Two monkeys beat each other so the owner of the zoo makes money.
Would u let your monkeys decide what happens? No.
Would u leave it up to chance? No.
And if u think that end skit with dc and brock wasn't planned i hope u never create children cause **** your stupid.
07.08.2018 | 10:37 PM ET
Youtube wanderlai silva ufc is fixed allegations.
@mbach you're right on the money thats why they call it sports entertainment now instead of sports.
Remember diaz mcgregor 2 c'mon kids figure it out. Ufc doesn't care who the best fighter is only who sells the most ppv or tickets.
07.08.2018 | 10:47 PM ET
Google ufc fixed and c for yourself.
07.08.2018 | 11:52 PM ET
Ufc goes to brazil and anderson silva and lyoto machida become champs and greatest ever
Ufc goes to mexico and cain velasquez becomes champ and greatest ever
Ufc goes to england and bisping becomes champ and greatest ever
Ufc goes to ireland and mcgregor becomes champ and greatest ever
Early this year ufc plans to go to russia and what a coincedence nutmagomedov becomes champ best ever
Ufc creates womans division and low and behold rhonda rousey is given a belt and becomes best ever
Ufc goes to poland and joanna excuses becomes champion and best ever.
Hhhmmmmm coincedence?
Wake up fan boys.
07.08.2018 | 11:56 PM ET
"This is Prize-Fighting, IDGAF about your family or your problems - MassaBruce"
07.08.2018 | 11:57 PM ET
07.09.2018 | 12:06 AM ET
Do you miss Bruce too? No one is really arguing with you. I don’t remember saying anything to support or oppose your stance.
Some people down voted you and I think you guess who does it and get upset. But we need to grown up?
Are you okay? I didn’t downvote anyone but might start just to watch you get bent over it. Haha.
"This is Prize-Fighting, IDGAF about your family or your problems - MassaBruce"
07.09.2018 | 12:12 AM ET
07.09.2018 | 12:12 AM ET
Hope they never fix that vote crap. @swain. Only care cause its annoying. Ideas and opinions dont need votes. It's the main bad criticism i have about this sight. It empowers little ***** keyboard warriors who feel good by down voting someone they dont agree with. Is this a popularity contest? Is that why tapology made message boards a part of the sight. R down votes suppose to stop me from posting what i think. If i gave a **** about post score i would have stoped or changed long ago. Much like my buddy masser bruce i could give a ****. Only ever used it cause its there. And it shouldn't be. Has nothing to do with mma. But i guess this site is for casual fans who enjoy voting like ****s.
07.09.2018 | 12:15 AM ET
BRING BACK BRUCE. BRING BACK BRUCE!!!!
TAPOLOGY TYRANTS.
BRING BACK BRUCE!
07.09.2018 | 12:32 AM ET
"I am trained in gorilla warfare" - Stay Ready
07.09.2018 | 12:52 AM ET
He needed a ban. When he comes back I expect he will be better behaved, and more civil. He didn't take the carrot, so it had to be all stick.
07.09.2018 | 8:11 PM ET
And if it was i wouldn't give a fug. Deal with it. Do u work for the ufc or tapology?
If not shut the **** up.
@fish bruce aint that bad. Nobody on here is that bad.
I stoped voting too except the downvote i tried to give boredoms just now but only
Cause i dont like c@nts trying to tell me what to do. I suspect its mostly cowards who dont even post that throw out votes. And regs who hold grudges. That **** is weak.
07.09.2018 | 8:17 PM ET
I say he comes back worse then ever but he'll b smarter about it.
Mikeyg too! I take it all with a grain of salt. Mostly.
Guess its hard to love something this much without getting into fights over it.