Topic: Regulation, USADA, & PEDs

Institute a tougher anti-steroids policy.

Anonymous Mode

You are not logged in to Tapology. When browsing anonymously, profanities and images are automatically removed from the forum.

Bill Burgess
Bill Burgess
  • Location: Mt. View, CA
  • Member Since: 2011.09.19
  • Predictions:  301  |  69.1%
  • Forum Posts:  5,093
  • Post Score: 47

10.13.2011 | 1:41 PM ET

10. Institute a tougher anti-steroids policy. All fighters should be tested at every event, and it would also be good to institute random, between fight testing, too. I suspect the sport has HUGE, hidden problems in this area that should be investigated. 

When I arrived here I suggested a menu of priorities that the UFC might consider to move forward.  My 10th suggestion was this one.  I wish to expand on this.  I also will post 2-3 short pieces I wrote for baseball-fever.com that articulated my beliefs on how we need to exert pressure on sports to keep the pressure on the athletes.  

Our name athletes exert a profound influence on the coming of age of young athletes, including high schoolers and maybe even younger.  

"Love God, live with honor, keep your agreements."

Responses

Bill Burgess
Bill Burgess
  • Location: Mt. View, CA
  • Member Since: 2011.09.19
  • Predictions:  301  |  69.1%
  • Forum Posts:  5,093
  • Post Score: 47

10.13.2011 | 1:42 PM ET

Article I wrote around 2008.
Steroids: The Wrong Message


What is the message that all this sends to high schoolers? My take?

It sends all the wrong signals. It says that if you don't get caught, you reap untold rewards. If you get caught, woe unto you. So, . . . don't get caught.

But, . . . if you're clever enough to dodge the rain drops, you get to become a huge movie star, then governor (Cal./Minn.).

When I was growing up in the 60's, the entire sport of body building was 99.9% hooked on steroids. The E-N-T-I-R-E sport. Hooked. And nothing has changed since. In fact, women's body building is bizarre. They all look like men, and even their voices sound like men. Weird.

The entire sport of weight lifting was hooked on steroids. And nothing's changed since.

In those halycon days of the mid 60's, only the "weight men" (shot putters, discus throwers, javelin throwers, hammer throwers) of track & field were hooked on steroids. And they weren't shy about it!

I remember a movie with Mariel Hemingway, called "Personal Best", from 1982. They used a lot of world class athletes from southern Cal. in the movie. One, a shot putter named Al Feurbach, actually in the movie, in one scene, popped a pill into his mouth, curled his tongue around it and washed it down with a beer. And then he picks up a guitar, strums a few chords and starts to sing about a steroid called dianabol. That scene was intended to tweak the track authorities that they'd do whatever they liked.

If you don't get caught, you could have been one of the hugest steroid abusers ever, (Schwarzenegger), and they put you into the biggest movies, and then elect you governor. I wonder how many who are trashing Bonds these days, went to Arnold's movies, admired his pecs, or voted for him as Governor? Moral consistency? I even think he was appointed National Health & Fitness guy. Who better to lecture the kids? Did he use his position to warn HSers away from the potential down side of steroids? Hardly. Did HE ever confess, as we now demand of Bonds?

Does anyone here believe that Sly Stallone got so buffed without steroids? And did any of us love his Rocky series? Or his First Blood series? Before Stallone's 3rd Rocky movie (one with Mr. T.), he worked out with Franco Columbu, Arnold's close buddy, and well-known steroid freak. Did Van Damme use? Hulk Hogan? Stone Cold? Our culture tells the kids, "Do what you must to be the best, but don't get caught." Do any parents any more tell their kids, "Those wrestlers abuse steroids. Don't be stupid". Are Football and basketball or hockey Lilly white? Were they ever?

I'm not saying Bonds should not confess. He should. But where was the moral outrage, the indignation that a steroid freak was made into a matinée idol (Arnold). And now they're talking about changing the Constitution, to let him run for President. The first not born in the country. Did the media ever hound him about his steroid abuse?

All I'm saying here, is that our culture is telling the kids, "Don't get caught." But the rewards are telling the kids, "If you don't get caught, you'll get to be President." Is no part of the problem embedded in our culture? And aren't many of us going along for the ride?

It's up to all of us - parents, teachers, sports coaches, to CHANGE THE MESSAGE.

Tough Love may not be easy, but is anything too tough to save the kids?

"Love God, live with honor, keep your agreements."

Bill Burgess
Bill Burgess
  • Location: Mt. View, CA
  • Member Since: 2011.09.19
  • Predictions:  301  |  69.1%
  • Forum Posts:  5,093
  • Post Score: 47

10.13.2011 | 1:47 PM ET

On April 1, 2010, I wrote this moralistic rant, on the evils of steroids in baseball, and I referred to Dana White and the UFC.   
  
How Old-School Are You? My impressions on where baseball has gone wrong. It appears that most of us are rather conservative in our opinions. I haven't unburdened myself in a while. Time to get some things off my chest. Time for a good, old-fashioned, Burgessian, moralistic RANT. 
So what is the state of baseball today? Is our beloved national pastime healthy? Or does anyone still care? 

I think one of the starting points is the powers-that-be. The so-called owners. Today, the old, traditional family-owned baseball team is long-gone. Once upon a time, Ruppert, Stoneham, Breadon, Dreyfuss, Wrigley, Griffith, Navin, Yawkey, Shibe, Mack, Crosley, Briggs, Comiskey, Finley, Ebbets, Herrmanm, Busch and others ruled the roost. But no more. In recent memory, we had Ted Turner and Gene Autry. And we still have King George of New York .

But for the most part, we have corporate syndicates owning baseball teams, fronted by a Board of Trustees, fronted by a Chairman of the Board. I bet no one on Fever could name all the Chairmen who front the teams today. When baseball had only 16 teams, almost every true fan could name every team owner. 

Today, the corporate syndicates rule the baseball landscape, some are virtually anomalous, and the game is the poorer for it. The corporate interests are primarily concerned with the bottom line, and as long as business is booming, they will ignore any and all problems, and feel that all is well in their individual Kingdoms.

Well, my friends, all is NOT WELL! Not by a long shot. Not by a country mile. The men who rule baseball are not baseball men, like the moguls of old. Some of the old moguls were ignorant men who I wouldn't let walk my dog, but that's not the point. Some of those old moguls were identical with today's nameless, faceless, corporate *****s. 

I'll spare everyone another of my anti-Walter O'Malley rants because you all know where I stand on him. But he would have fit right in with today's baseball ownership culture. Out for himself and the fans be hung.

One of the most glaring sports crimes today in baseball, in my supremely-humble opinion, is the proliferation of the steroid-abusing baseball player. I suppose that many have sold out and rationalized that they need to use drugs to remain competitive with the other steroid-abusing players. But even if that were true, and I am a long way from prepared to concede that particular point, it doesn't solve the problem. It just surrenders to the problem and gives in to it. In other words, "If you can't beat 'em , join 'em."

What does that mean to the fan? It should mean something. Steroids destroy health on a long-term basis. They will MESS YOU UP. But the present set of team owners could hardly care less. They consider their players - product. Completely disposable. Hell, even O'Malley took care of Campanella! 

In response to criticism in Congress, on March 30, 2006, Commissioner Selig asked former Senator, George Mitchell to investigate baseball's steroid problem. On December 13, 2007, after almost a 1.5 year investigation, the Mitchell Report was released, naming 89 players who were discovered to have used steroids or HGH. Did anything happen to those 89 men? Were any consequences issued? Not to my knowledge so far. And why not?

If I were Lord of the Kingdom, I would issue a 1 season suspension, coupled with a fine of 1 year's salary. Draconian? Not if you want to save good people who cannot save themselves. Tough love is like a life-line thrown to a drowning man. And a second recurrence would merit a life-ban from Commissioner Burgess. Extraordinary times require extreme measures. When you find you have a cancer in you, you need to cut it out, fast.

Commissioner Selig had his list of 89 names and nothing happened. They protected the cheaters. They are hiding the problem. If they do not change their unfortunate attitudes, someday, baseball players will all be like the professional, fake wrestlers. Steroid freaks. And don't think it can't happen to baseball. It happened to body building. It happened to weight lifting. Those men will someday have to pay the devil for their glory. Make a deal with the Devil, and he'll own you, someday. Just like the Faust story.

Our kids, our husbands, our Dads are well-worth fighting for. Well-worth saving. We should keep the pressure on to clean up the sport of baseball from the scourge of steroids. My late friend, Gene Carney, compared today's drug problem to yesterday's gambling problem. Both times, The Lords of Baseball ignored the problem until it bit them in the butts. 

Wouldn't it be refreshing if the present Lords of the Realm of Baseball fought the curse of steroids as hard and honestly as Dana White, present President of the UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championship). Thanks to him, every UFC fighter is tested for banned substances after every single UFC event. Every one!

Dana suspended one of his title holders, Sean Sherk, the 155 lb. division title holder, when he tested positive for steroids in 2006. Sean was stripped of his title and suspended for about 8 months. One of their best welter-weights, Karo Parisyan decided to drop out of the UFC in November, 2009, rather than test positive and face the consequences. He was on banned pain killers for his back.

Track and Field is still vigorously fighting the steroid menace. It has banned world record holders, Olympic champions, etc. were tested positive. Look at the cases of Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, etc. If baseball joined them in fighting hard, we would not be fighting alone. We would have allies in the UFC and Track and Field. In unity there is strength.

To throw in the towel pre-maturely, to just give up and walk away from the problem, and imitate an ostrich and stick our collective heads in the sand will only sacrifice our children's health. The future health of our husbands, fathers, and our perceived idols. I say, "Hell, no. We won't go down that slippery slope of destruction. Our people are too valuable to just throw away like toilet tissue!"

If one just looks at the gate attendance, baseball never had it so good. The per/game attendance is outstanding. Here is a link to attendance.---attendance

In 2003, baseball averaged almost 28,000 people per game. That is up from 16,000 per game in 1948, 20,000 in 1970, 30,000 in 1993. So, business is indeed booming.

So, you might ask, "So, Bill. What's wrong? Times are good." But for the reasons I listed above, times are good for the owners. They will not be good for the steroid-abusers down the road. 

If anyone saw the TV documentary of Jose Canseco, he is still going through the tortures of the damned, due to trying to keep off steroids. Steroids destroy. They likely affect every person differently. Every person's body probably tries to defend itself in a different way. Which is why there is no one set pattern of action that we can discern and prepare a remedy against.

The present baseball Commissioner, Bud Selig, a former Milwaukee Brewers' team owner, is like having no Commissioner at all. He is a weak, passive man, who doesn't like controversy or confrontation. Spokesmen for vast, commercial empires, that take in many millions of dollars per year, are not in a position to rock the boat. It is in their interests to be invisible, where you're hardly aware they're there. 

But when a game is ruining the health of its players, sacrificing them on the Altar of Commerce, I say that business should have to suffer a little.

One of the reasons that the players are so quiet on the subject is that they are so grossly over-paid, they would be crazy to rock the boat. They are just hoping that the attention to the steroid menace blows over. 

I feel that the baseball Commissioner should never be a former owner. He should be either neutral with respect to owner/player disputes or a former player. 

I feel that the Player's Association is not acting in the best interests of the players. They are no better than the owners were in the past. 'Absolute power corrupts absolutely.' Dominant power corrupted the early baseball moguls, and now it's corrupting the Player's Association.

Today, our beloved National Pastime desperately needs mandatory, random drug-testing, in-season and off-season. And if the Player's Association continues to block such necessary measures, and play an obstructionist role, they should be revealed to be just that, obstructionist to the game cleaning its house. Being a MLB player is not a right. It's a privilege. And the privilege should not be granted to anyone not willing to play by the rules. 

If I were in charge of the Player's Association, I would fight hard for the players to mitigate their salary demands. I would highly advise the players to adopt a more sensible, long-range strategy to their salaries. I would suggest that the excellent, All-Star caliber players receive a maximum of around $6M/season, and the very greatest, like Bonds, A-Rod, Pujols, etc. receive a top limit of around $12m/season. 

I strongly disagree with those fans who say that a player should get 'whatever the market will bear'. That is not a healthy attitude. It was wrong when the owners used it as a standard to hold down player salaries, and no better when players use it. 

The players could well get along on $6/12 M/season. That is a lot of money and the difference in money could go to stadium maintenance, so that our historic ballparks don't get so out of date that they can no longer be renovated and kept up to improving standards. It could also go into a fund reserved for players who get prematurely hurt and have to drop out of the majors.

These and many more issues remain to be discussed. Many of you might think my opinions belong to a quaint past, when baseball dugouts were populated by players who gained their talent the old-fashioned way. Years of hard practice, the weight room, and clean living. Not by huge, carefully-cultivated hybrid monsters. When a man could take his 2 sons to a double-hitter, played on a Sunday, played in the daytime, under clear, blue sylvan skies. Without going broke on the tickets, parking and concessions.

Once upon a time, even moderate-income wage-earners could do that and not feel that was a big deal. Today, the parking alone is sickening. 

If the players' salaries were not so unreasonable, maybe the cost of attending games could change for the better. 

I am well aware that asking a man to voluntarily take a big pay cut is asking a lot. It would take a lot of leadership to actually have it sound reasonable and happen. 

A baseball player should not be asked to take a pay cut unless there were an extremely good reason for it. And I contend that there is a good reason for it. It is my contention that it would result in the good of the game. 

The owners stuck it to the ballplayers from 1870's to the 1970's. That's a lot of sticking it. But I don't want to see the ballplayers sticking it to the teams for the next 100 years. Two wrongs don't make a right.     

Mitigating their salaries would be the right thing to do, for the good of the game, the pocket-books of the fans, and their own integrity.

The price of attending a ballgame would drop, allowing more people to actually go out and see the games. And that, my friends, is an absolute, supreme, good. 

Our National Game has a lot of serious problems but the best answers will never come as long as the game is ruled by the present set of business types. They don't even understand the game, and don't seem to want to.

"Love God, live with honor, keep your agreements."

buffalo ben
buffalo ben
  • Location: Bogotá, Colombia
  • Member Since: 2011.08.31
  • Predictions:  3,705  |  58.2%
  • Forum Posts:  6,348
  • Post Score: 157

10.13.2011 | 1:52 PM ET

My secret fear is that there are a lot of mma athletes using steroids. It would suck so bad if they were.

"You don't have to be perfect, just dont be fraudulant"

Bill Burgess
Bill Burgess
  • Location: Mt. View, CA
  • Member Since: 2011.09.19
  • Predictions:  301  |  69.1%
  • Forum Posts:  5,093
  • Post Score: 47

10.13.2011 | 1:53 PM ET

Wrote this in 2008.  But it still applies, I think.

 When a young person considers a profession in sports, is it any wonder many consider steroids an unfortunate necessity to success? And who could blame them? 

Arnold Schwarzenegger, Franco Columbu (body building), Sly Stallone (films), Stone Cold, Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan (pro wresting), Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds (baseball), all body builders, all weight-lifters, most track and field shot putters, discus throwers, javelin throwers, hammer throwers.

What messages are these matinée idols sending to our young prospective athletes? Not a good, healthy choice! The message is ALL WRONG!

The message received from steroid-freak, hybrid monsters who found fame, glory, money, and were never even scolded for steroid use, is: Do what you must to reach the top of your field, BUT DON'T GET CAUGHT! 

We must change the message our young athletes are getting. I have not a doubt in my mind that Schwarzenegger, Stallone, Hogan, Columbu have incurred health problems that maybe they themselves haven't yet connected to their former steroid use. It might vary with each individual.

I suspect that if baseball continues to go as it is going now, nothing will happen to steroid users. Abusers will not even be caught, and if they do, I predict no more than slaps on the wrists.

As things are now, the abusers are still considered 'good investments' and fan magnets. They are not thought of in a negative light by their bosses (the team owners).

So, I don't expect anything to change. I expect the abusers to not get caught, and then, one by one, outside the public view, they will suffer various health horrors, and succeed in hiding them from their fans. Their health will suffer, and the public will not learn of them. 

In time, I believe this situation will evolve much like cigarette use did. The horrors only came out many decades after they were presented as health tonics & stress relievers. Baseball players used to be paid to be depicted in cigarette ads in The Sporting News. The truth was hidden as long as possible with the tobacco companies hiring dishonest 'pseudo-scientists' who alleged that cigarette smoking could not be tied to any diseases such as lung cancer, asthma, emphysema, heart disease, etc. Of course, people with common sense knew intuitively the truth and didn't need professionals to know the bad side-effects.

I expect the steroid issue might go down similar paths. 

I would love to have a meeting with Sly Stallone and lobby him to head a commission, composed of him, Schwarzenegger, Hulk Hogan, and others to start a national campaign to alert our young people to go around the temptations of steroid use. Health is more important than fame and money. Without your health in middle years, money is harder to enjoy. 

I like Brad's severe punishments for steroid use. It has teeth in it. And I agree on an amnesty for before a certain date. Otherwise, we'll spend from now to eternity dealing with all the early cheats.

And I support taking some records off the books. Bonds' 70 homers, his career HR record, both McGwire and Sosa' 1998 records. 

I would applaud taking them off the books. No asterisks, no records, no nothing.

And here is why. Because those athletes put the 'Clean Players' in a no-win position. Was it fair that the steroid-freak, hybrid monsters got the records, while their 'Clean Player' rivals got left in the ditch? The best Clean Players were cheated out of their season leads, which might have led to salary raises, media attention, and maybe some all-star teams.

Today, the 'Clean Player' is placed in a hopeless, no-win position, despite years of hard, clean work, and amazing results. They are disadvantaged, and that's not fair. It's unethical. If the team owners were doing what they should be doing, the clean guys would be being recognized for their years of hard, clean work. It's just sick. The system is sick, and needs to be made right.

Ubi once made a simple suggestion. If the owners really were interested in cleaning house (they're not, but this applies to if they were), here is one way to do it. Very simple.

Institute random off and in season testing. And if anyone tested with debris in their urine, hold the managers and coaches responsible and terminate their employment.

If the jobs of the managers/coaches were on the line, I absolutely guarantee you that they would be knocking on doors at 3AM in the morning, armed with small, glass vials, and asking for urine samples! Dirty players would start hiding out, and the managers/coaches would be hiring private investigators to find them, and that, my friends is how its done.

Hold someone responsible! Stop letting the players get away with 'The Honor System'. It didn't work. 

As long as players believe it is in their best interests to cheat and play dirty, they will continue to do so. We must change the ground rules. We must be firm and consistent. We must make them aware that using steroids is no longer in their best interests, like they do in the UFC and track and field. Then and only then will intelligent athletes change their behavior.

And not until then will clean players have a level playing field. Until then, clean players are hopelessly disadvantaged and will continue to get screwed by a corrupt system, which rewards the bad apples and withholds the full agenda of good things in life from the clean players.

Writers like ourselves can assume leadership and lead the way. Fever puts a loud microphone in front of us and we can use our posts to sound the alarm, hopefully, someone might see our concerns and start a bandwagon. 

There is nothing so powerful as a bandwagon whose time has come. Come! Join My Bandwagon! Ride with me in one, last Paul Revere ride. The stakes are worth it.

"Love God, live with honor, keep your agreements."

norbar
norbar
  • Location: Warsaw, Poland
  • Member Since: 2011.03.27
  • Predictions:  2,367  |  62.9%
  • Forum Posts:  473
  • Post Score: 129

10.13.2011 | 1:56 PM ET

Imho testing all of them after/before comps is not enough. The top athletes should have olympic type of testing. Ie. Give their whereabouts all the time and prepare to be tested randomly outside of comp because there is a lot of place to abuse illegal performance enchancers outside of competition and hide it when you know the date.

It happens in all big sports so why not MMA if it wants to be ligitimate?

"“Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination.” ― Oscar Wilde"

Bill Burgess
Bill Burgess
  • Location: Mt. View, CA
  • Member Since: 2011.09.19
  • Predictions:  301  |  69.1%
  • Forum Posts:  5,093
  • Post Score: 47

10.13.2011 | 1:59 PM ET

Recently, Forrest Griffin suggested that a large majority of MMA fighters might be cheating on the sly.  That is why I believe that the only course that will deter would-be steroid cheats is random, between-event testing.  If fighters understood that UFC officials could show up at any time and require a urine sample, done in front of them, they would not risk their careers.  As things stand today, they can do as they choose, and discontinue in time for the drugs to drain from their systems by the time they arrive at events to fight. 

We require random between-event testing.  And we need it now.  Clean fighters deserve to know they are fighting other clean fighters.  No one should be tolerated advantages.  

* Edited at 10.13.2011, 2:00 PM ET *

"Love God, live with honor, keep your agreements."

Bill Burgess
Bill Burgess
  • Location: Mt. View, CA
  • Member Since: 2011.09.19
  • Predictions:  301  |  69.1%
  • Forum Posts:  5,093
  • Post Score: 47

10.13.2011 | 2:10 PM ET

Here is an instructive article which breaks down who did what and their talking about it.
http://www.cagepotato.com/mma-steroid-busts-definitive-timeline/

And here's an article by someone who agrees with me.
http://www.cagepotato.com/five-more-things-that-dana-white-would-be-pretty-fcking-stupid-not-to-do/?utm_source=bleacherreport.com&utm_medium=referral

* Edited at 10.13.2011, 2:19 PM ET *

"Love God, live with honor, keep your agreements."

trevpicks
trevpicks
  • Location: Toronto
  • Member Since: 2011.03.25
  • Predictions:  83,135  |  56.1%
  • Forum Posts:  1,853
  • Post Score: 222

10.13.2011 | 3:10 PM ET

Top athletes in all sports are always looking for an edge, but i think in combat sports the percentage of athletes who use illegal supplements is higher then all other sports.

trevpicks
trevpicks
  • Location: Toronto
  • Member Since: 2011.03.25
  • Predictions:  83,135  |  56.1%
  • Forum Posts:  1,853
  • Post Score: 222

10.13.2011 | 3:15 PM ET

Perfect example of a fighter abusing steroids is War Machine, the dude dips his lips in roid juice everyday no doubt!
Bigj383
Bigj383
  • Location: San Diego
  • Member Since: 2010.10.12
  • Predictions:  8,546  |  63.8%
  • Forum Posts:  5,417
  • Post Score: 187

10.13.2011 | 5:51 PM ET

I absolutely disagree with the Five more things that Dana... article. Almost every point on that article is not a good idea for the UFC. 

As for Steroids in MMA the fact people get caught all the time shows testing is actually pretty decent. I really don't thing steroids are as prevalent in MMA as some people claim. I believe it is in a number below 50% especially at the UFC level. I'm pretty sure MMA already has better testing than Football, Baseball, Basketball or any other mainstream sport. You can't test every fighter all the time but when they get caught it's devastating for them. Some fighters are willing to take the risk some aren't. Any fighter who has ever been caught should have to submit a pre and post fight sample as well as a mid camp sample and be subject to random tests. I'm not against random testing but the expense to randomly test fighters especially international fighters must be very high. 

"It does not make sense that humans deliberately malfunction. - Upgrade"

Bill Burgess
Bill Burgess
  • Location: Mt. View, CA
  • Member Since: 2011.09.19
  • Predictions:  301  |  69.1%
  • Forum Posts:  5,093
  • Post Score: 47

10.13.2011 | 6:22 PM ET

One of the biggest impacts of steroids is what we, as a sports fan community, establish as acceptable.  If the kids coming up at the HS/College level believe that steroids are an acceptable risk to their health, and suspect that many, many of their heroes do them secretly, on the sly, they will continue to do them.  And this is the problem we must address.  What the sports community establishes as acceptable behavior.

We, as a sports fan community, must make it clear to all our kids, that this is completely unacceptable behavior.  Like gambling in baseball, or doctoring a baseball with vasaline, or using a greasing agent on your body in MMA.  There must be a code of good behavior.  That the kids will read from their heroes and idols.  

At the present, the kids are not convinced that doing steroids is 'really cheating'.  We have made it too easy for them to rationalize.  We have blurred the fine lines of distinction.  The kids now tell themselves that using steroids is a regretable, lamentable, unfortunate evil that they simply must do to be competitive.  And we are part of the problem.

How many of us are parents have patronized Schwarzenegger movies, or Sly Stallone's?  Have we ever sat our kids down and had the drugs discussion or steroids discussion?  I'll bet probably not.  We probably put that kind of conversation in the same category as the 'birds and the bees' conversation, and skipped it, hoping our kids learn what they need to know on the streets, from their friends, or in the locker room.

It's up to us to do the Paul Revere Midnight Ride and sound the alarm.  Yeah, we risk looking like old fogies, fools and old farts, but isn't it worth looking dumb if it helps them go down the right paths.  Are they worth looking bad for?  I think so.

* Edited at 10.13.2011, 6:27 PM ET *

"Love God, live with honor, keep your agreements."

Bigj383
Bigj383
  • Location: San Diego
  • Member Since: 2010.10.12
  • Predictions:  8,546  |  63.8%
  • Forum Posts:  5,417
  • Post Score: 187

10.13.2011 | 6:50 PM ET



What people say to their kids about steroids is their own business. As far as steroids in athletics go it's unacceptable and is against the rules. Fighters are already tested and when caught they face a year suspension and a fine as well as being marked a cheater in their legacy and sometimes a NC on their record. Beyond that there isn't much more we can do. You can't stop all cheating all the time. As far as actors and others using steroids I couldn't care less. If someone wants to risk their health for cosmetic muscles that's their own business. As long as they aren't using performance enhancers in athletic competition then I'm ok with it. The're adults what they do to their own body is their own business. Again what you tell your kids about the negatives of steroid use and that the benefits don't outweigh the cost is on you. 

"It does not make sense that humans deliberately malfunction. - Upgrade"

Bill Burgess
Bill Burgess
  • Location: Mt. View, CA
  • Member Since: 2011.09.19
  • Predictions:  301  |  69.1%
  • Forum Posts:  5,093
  • Post Score: 47

10.13.2011 | 9:35 PM ET

Compared to what we do now, there is a lot more that can be done.  And I'm only talking about the UFC here.  Not other sports, in this particular discussion.  At the moment, the UFC fighters, as I understand it, only are tested at events.  Maybe before or maybe after.  They can use inbetween events and discontinue in time for their bodies to excrete the residues by event time. 

If the UFC, undertook on their own, independent of the sanctioning committees, to test inbetween events, that might deter a lot of fighters, for fear of getting caught.  But I agree that it would be almost impossible to catch all the cheats.  The random testing would be too costly to send reps to so many training camps.  So, it would be a random sampling, and hopefully, the fear of being selected randomly might deter the cheats from risking getting caught. 
 
But I do disagree with Bigj383 on one thing.  While what parents tell their kids is a private family matter, the results of athletes using steroids impacts many other people outside the family.  If a dirty fighter discontinues using in time for his fights, and beats clean fighters, thus tarnishing their professional records unfairly, its wrongful results ripples out and hurts the clean fighters.  The easiest remedy is the early line of defense.  Some societal problems start with the family values breakdown.  If the early line of defense holds, the later problems can potentially be contained.  

I'm not trying to dictate what parents do, but suggesting how much better things might get if parents took a different approach.  Suggesting something on an online discussion board, is not an invasion of anyone's privacy.  I'm not an agency and I have no power.  I can only advocate.  I have that right.  Writers are not being inappropriate.

* Edited at 10.13.2011, 9:37 PM ET *

"Love God, live with honor, keep your agreements."

Bigj383
Bigj383
  • Location: San Diego
  • Member Since: 2010.10.12
  • Predictions:  8,546  |  63.8%
  • Forum Posts:  5,417
  • Post Score: 187

10.14.2011 | 3:25 AM ET

UFC has taken more steps to prevent illegal steroid use than any other sport owner I can think of. When UFC travels outside the US to where there is no commission UFC does their own testing. Chris Leben was caught by a test administered by the UFC not by the commission. According to the list you posted 3 fighters listed were exclusively caught by the UFC themselves. Like I said I don't believe steroid use in MMA is an epidemic and it's best to believe and claim the fighters are clean until otherwise proven different. You are assuming most fighters are dirty and cheating and must be caught, the reason more aren't caught is because testing is not good enough. I can assume fighters are clean and those who cheat are caught most of the time, the reason more fighters aren't caught is because they aren't cheating. If you have kids tell them they are clean and don't cheat. If the fighter is caught it's disappointing but you can chastise those who are caught as cheaters. As far as impacting records of the 33 fighters listed being caught for steroid use, 21 were caught in a losing effort. 

"It does not make sense that humans deliberately malfunction. - Upgrade"

MikeLovesTacos XD
MikeLovesTacos XD
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
  • Member Since: 2011.07.14
  • Predictions:  30,384  |  59.3%
  • Forum Posts:  22,487
  • Post Score: 203

10.14.2011 | 8:58 AM ET

UFC takes massive steps to avoid the use of steroids.

"Why are you booing me? I am the GOAT. **** you." - Patricio "Pitbull" Freire

Bill Burgess
Bill Burgess
  • Location: Mt. View, CA
  • Member Since: 2011.09.19
  • Predictions:  301  |  69.1%
  • Forum Posts:  5,093
  • Post Score: 47

10.14.2011 | 12:42 PM ET

I'm confused.  I suggest random, inbetween events testing, and it sounds like not everyone is on board.  Why not?  If the supposition is that most fighters are clean and not cheating, then they will not be adversely impacted.  If a UFC rep arrives at their camp, and requests a urine sample, all they would have to do is pee into a vial and that's it.  No problem.  Only a cheat would have to worry about getting caught.

And if someone is cheating, maybe the fear of that knock on the door would be enough to deter them from further cheating.  Sometimes, the temptations to do the wrong thing is overwhelming and the rewards for doing the right thing are not that obvious.  So, why would my suggestions even be controversial? 

If most fighters are clean, and I think they are, then why not support a common-sense policy to keep things honest and real?  I don't see ANY problems with supporting random testing.  We can assume the sanctioning committees will do as little as possible.  We shouldn't see this as THEIR problem.  This is OUR problem, and I can only applaud the UFC for conducting their own testing.  Even if the UFC did no random testing in real life, even announcing they will would do some good.  As in chess, the threat of an move is as good as the move!

The issue should not be how many cheats are out there.  If guys like Bonnar, Leben, Sonnen, etc. were caught, then who knows who else gave in to the wrong temptations?  Why not just have a policy that tells everyone that a rep might show up at any time, in training camp, NOT in training camp, ANYTIME you're under contract at all?  

If one is doing the wrong thing, the most likely time to cheat is several days after a fight when the guy is least likely to get tested.  Before their next fight is penciled in the schedule!  That would be the likely time people cheat.  So, let's test then!  And if they're clean, NO PROBLEMA.

* Edited at 10.14.2011, 12:43 PM ET *

"Love God, live with honor, keep your agreements."

Bill Burgess
Bill Burgess
  • Location: Mt. View, CA
  • Member Since: 2011.09.19
  • Predictions:  301  |  69.1%
  • Forum Posts:  5,093
  • Post Score: 47

04.03.2013 | 8:09 PM ET

"Love God, live with honor, keep your agreements."

Swickotine
Swickotine
  • Member Since: 2011.05.02
  • Predictions:  18,150  |  61.8%
  • Forum Posts:  11,851
  • Post Score: 223

04.03.2013 | 8:21 PM ET

I also agree with you Bill...I think TRT is currently the biggest problem in UFC.

"I'm bi-polar...nice jab, mean hook."

ProdigyKid14
ProdigyKid14
  • Location: Michigan
  • Member Since: 2011.08.14
  • Predictions:  8,848  |  62.4%
  • Forum Posts:  5,902
  • Post Score: 195

04.03.2013 | 9:24 PM ET

I believe a good majority of high level fighters are on something. I think this and judging are two of the bigger issues that need to be dealt with in this sport.

"I fight em all. Men, women, children, ******** people, it doesn't matter. If you hit me, we're gonna fight. -Charles Bennett"


You must be signed in to reply. Sign in or register to join the discussion.

As an anonymous reader, profanities and images are automatically removed from the forum.

  • MMAFighting.com : Jon Jones reveals ‘I have a date’ for UFC return, verbal agreement in place
  • MMA Junkie : UFC 303 teaser video: Shadowy Conor McGregor paces during 'Foggy Dew'
  • MMAFighting.com : Watch insane knockout punch leave fighter flat on the canvas
  • MMAFighting.com : Watch: Conor McGregor’s return teased in spine-tingling promo ahead of UFC 303
  • MMA Junkie : Fight Tracks: The walkout songs of UFC 301 with AC/DC x 3
  • MMA Junkie : UFC 301 Promotional Guidelines Compliance pay: Jose Aldo nets $21k for potential final UFC fight
  • MMAFighting.com : Steve Erceg reacts to Alexandre Pantoja loss at UFC 301: ‘I just blew it’
  • MMA Mania : ‘I Feel Bad For Buffer’
  • MMA Mania : Biggest Winners, Loser From UFC 301
  • MMA Mania : UFC 301, The Morning After: Retirement Isn’t Real!
  • Bad Left Hook : Boxing streaming and TV schedule for May 6-11
  • Jits Magazine : Michel Pereira Lands Crazy Backflip Pass Into Controversial Submission Win At UFC 301
  • Jits Magazine : Tony Ferguson Reveals That He Has Been Offered A Grappling Match With Charles Oliveira
  • MMA Mania : Alvarez Clowns ‘Girl’ De La Hoya After Win
  • MMA Mania : Alvarez Clowned De La Hoya After Win
  • MMAFighting.com : UFC 301 post-fight show: Reaction to Alexandre Pantoja’s scare, Jose Aldo’s big return
  • MMA Mania : UFC 303 Gets ‘Foggy’ Teaser Trailer
  • Middle Easy : Canelo Alvarez vs. Jaime Munguia: Canelo Dominates in Unanimous Decision Victory [Video Highlights]
  • MMA Mania : Video: Canelo Mocks Benavidez After Beating Munguia
  • MMA Mania : ‘I Have A Date, I’ll Let Boss Man Dana Announce That’