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Could Khabibs faith bring strong implications in a USA market?

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StreamFan68
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11.22.2016 | 10:31 AM ET

Question I believe is warrented considering the times we live in. I try and envision a fighter bringing at least %30 drawing power ringside to events... hopefully... Then I look at the Conor/Khabib matchup...then I factor in the social tug of war going on  along with the fact UFC has done a magnificent job so far in not engaging in any political or religous debate through its productions.. But could this last? Could this actually force people like Dana to actually reveal themselves in such a light? What would a crowd of %70 Irish catholics look like with say %10 even faithful Muslim fans in an arena once the drunk "chatter" were to begin? Hate to say it but its something I truly think they have considered for awhile now with basic sensitivitys here in the US.... so what do you guys think?

"“And tell Dana I said get off Conor’s nuts”....(Nate Diaz) "

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AlexSpanBjj
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11.25.2016 | 9:43 AM ET

That being said, my aim is not to offense you guys. English is not my native tong so maybe the choice of words are not always adequate.

Just to comeback on Khabib who is the main topic. I just rewatch the post fight interview. I think that it's not very smart from him and as i said before, religion don't have it's place in sport so i can't agree with him. I am just asking myself if it's the fact that he speaks about religion that disturb ppl or the fact that he's muslim. @mikeyg you took Vitor as example, i don't think his speech bother anyone like Romero's one with his John 3:16 written on his little bandana. What are you thoughs on that?

* Edited at 11.25.2016, 9:44 AM ET *

mikeyg
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11.25.2016 | 11:06 AM ET

@Alex, pls take all the sentence when you quote what i said. I reacted to"

I always try to be as nuanced as possible, so I'll take that into consideration, sure.

"Muslims shouldn't be scared of insults, it's just a natural consequence of society". I don't agree with the fact it's a natural consequence of society,"

Then you are against free speech and therefore I am against you philosophically on many levels.

"it doesn't means that i am against derision/satyre of ppl or of a religion (I am living in Belgium so don't worry i know very well the implications of all that issue..)"

It actually is that. It you think it's not part of modernity to accept insult and satire, then you harbor anti-western values like being against freedom of speech, which includes the freedom to insult and satirize. Nobody gets a safe space.

"Sure there are stats, but stat is a tool that can be used in many differents way and so, have to be taken with caution"

I think that's a fair statement, but knowing that fact, I only use stats when it is empirical and not subjective.

"(Even the Nazis used some stats and claimed scientific legitimacy to legitimate their actions and policies..). Don't be a sheep."

I could just call Godwin's Law on this because this is you waving a white flag, but I'd rather discuss further.

"Concerning Khabib, i have to rewatch his post fight interview because i don't remember everything he said. Btw Allahu Akbar means "God is [the] greatest" and i am not defending Khabib. Khabib was the original topic of this post but you guys started to talk on some generalities."

It's also something 99% of terrorists worldwide shout before murdering a bunch of civilians. I'm saying the generalities of Muslims have merit to them, based on empirical data. Muslims are very sensitive to criticism, you know why? Because their religion tells them to be violent to non-believers, not to debate them. Islam needs a renaissance soon, or it will likely be pushed back against heavily if another 9/11 happens anywhere worldwide, which is inevitable.

* Edited at 11.25.2016, 11:16 AM ET *

mikeyg
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11.25.2016 | 11:17 AM ET

I just noticed you're from Belgium, you know, a place that used to be awesome before the massive refugee immigration. I don't know if you're noticed but Belgium isn't what it used to be, much like France, Sweden and Germany.
rappinpapsoda
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11.25.2016 | 2:42 PM ET

mikeyg, that is why many of the people there are pissed and tired of politicians not listening to them. Same thing happened in this year's US 2016 election.

"The only thing predictable about MMA is that it is unpredictable."

StreamFan68
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11.25.2016 | 3:05 PM ET

And THIS gentlemen is what I am talking about.... and what I am beginning to feel is a huge worry for top brass in UFC

"“And tell Dana I said get off Conor’s nuts”....(Nate Diaz) "

rappinpapsoda
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11.25.2016 | 3:25 PM ET

To be honest, I don't think many people would even realize it unless the UFC brought it out. Most people associate Islam with the Middle East even though the majority of them are outside of it.

"The only thing predictable about MMA is that it is unpredictable."

WastelandWanderer
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11.25.2016 | 6:16 PM ET



"I am the greatest blonde man in the world. I am Tru Viking." - Alexander Gustaffsson / "The world must bow to my glory. I am a God amongst mortals. They must pay me tribute in wine and concubine for my deeds." - Jon Jones "

WastelandWanderer
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11.25.2016 | 6:28 PM ET

type : "Rotherham gang" ( non in depth video )



* Edited at 11.25.2016, 6:35 PM ET *

"I am the greatest blonde man in the world. I am Tru Viking." - Alexander Gustaffsson / "The world must bow to my glory. I am a God amongst mortals. They must pay me tribute in wine and concubine for my deeds." - Jon Jones "

AlexSpanBjj
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11.28.2016 | 3:28 AM ET

@mikeyg You misinterpreted what i said. I don't agree with the fact that insults is "just a natural consequence of society", it doesn't mean i am against freespeech. Sorry man, but if it's your right for sure, i am not "pro" insulting some groups of population just because you have the right to do so. Constructive humour and satyre is one thing and it's fine, but the right to say whatever you want just push many ppl to bury themselves in communautarism and this is just bad overall, increasing the pit between some communities. The word there that really annoy me is "natural". What is natural to me is embracing new culture and ppl. Sorry to be so optimist (and now i am talking in general right).

The original sentence was : "Muslims shouldn't be scared of insults, it's just a natural consequence of society". You are right, if nothing bother you when you read that , our opinion surely diverges on some points.

If you want to talk about that in depth, we can in private (because i think we are really getting out of scope here)

mikeyg
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11.28.2016 | 3:53 PM ET

@AlexSpanBjj

"You misinterpreted what i said."

Nope.

"I don't agree with the fact that insults is "just a natural consequence of society"

Maybe it's time to grow up and get a thicker set of skin.

"it doesn't mean i am against freespeech."

Yes it does, you fundamentally do not understand free speech, because it includes the right to insult or satirize.

"Sorry man, but if it's your right for sure, i am not "pro" insulting some groups of population just because you have the right to do so."

Then you are against free speech, there's no other way to put it past your stubbornness.

"Constructive humour and satyre is one thing and it's fine"

Well who ******' decides what's humor and satire? The PC Police? No thanks, that's so authoritarian. You either have total free speech or you live in a fascist world where speech is controlled. Welcome to George Orwell's 1984.

"but the right to say whatever you want just push many ppl to bury themselves in communautarism and this is just bad overall"

Poking fun at a group is just as bad as that group lashing out violently? Get the **** out of here.

"increasing the pit between some communities."

I don't care if people get butthurt at jokes and satire. I don't want to be friends with theocratic or authoritarian bullies who want to govern my speech at the edge of a sword. Maybe Belgium is filled with regressive left ******* but we value free speech here, you take the good with the bad. If you try to silence one group, it could be you that's silenced someday, it needs to be free. And don't ******' bring up death threats as free speech, a crime does not fall under free speech.

"The word there that really annoy me is "natural". What is natural to me is embracing new culture and ppl."

Is that why Belgium is going downhill? Because of multiculturalism and your loose immigration laws (spoiler alert, yes). Your women are being ****d and harassed on mass, robberies and assaults are up, there's a serious crime wave going on throughout Europe from muslim refugees. Some cultures are better than others, and western values are clearly better than a part of the world for example that worships a pedophile warlord, Muhammad.

"Sorry to be so optimist (and now i am talking in general right)."

More like wearing the rose colored glasses on this issue. You're basically one of those people that says **** all borders we should all just be one culture. Sorry to break the news, but there are parts of the world about 1000 years behind us; technologically, ethically, medically, and almost every other way. There's no way the human species is ready to harmonize yet, not until Islam is wrangled in and not causing 99% of the terrorism worldwide. 

"The original sentence was : "Muslims shouldn't be scared of insults, it's just a natural consequence of society". You are right, if nothing bother you when you read that, our opinion surely diverges on some points"

If they get offended by satire or jokes, they're a bunch of regressive theocrats that I don't wish to know and feel nothing for.

* Edited at 11.28.2016, 9:06 PM ET *

Bigj383
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11.28.2016 | 5:04 PM ET

Or maybe you are just a bigot Mikey

"It does not make sense that humans deliberately malfunction. - Upgrade"

Anik
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11.28.2016 | 6:51 PM ET

mikey is clearly someone who prefers to be spoon-fed his information than see the big picture, because he's intellectually incapable of doing so. The sheer amount of fallacious reasoning in his posts is frightening, because it's frightening to know that the majority of people think like he does. His bigotry is a product of simpleton reasoning and ethnocentrism, and it's something that he'll have to correct himself.

The issues he's speaking about are so incredibly complicated, and he's an idiot if he actually thinks he understands the entirety of the situation. Furthermore, he peddles information that he can't possibly begin to understand but again, if he's genuinely concerned with finding out the truth then he will make the necessary effort in doing so.

But it's ok because I understand his position since I've been in it before. I was an anti-theist who was vehemently against the idea of religion which I thought to be corrupted, controlling and a one way path to idiocy. Needless to say that my stance has changed completely, and that's mostly because I've realized that we are all substantially stupider than we'd like to think. Socrates' sole claim to knowledge was that he 'knew nothing', and I think that that's the ideal foundation for anyone's search for truth in this corrupt world of ours.




Or maybe mikey's just mad that he's still my ***** and this is just all of his pent-up anger towards me.

EDIT: I wonder if the 5 thumbs downs are because people are actually stupid enough to share mikey's position, or if they just hate me now 'cause I'm Muslim. In any case Allahu Akhbar, and I mean that in every way possible.

* Edited at 11.28.2016, 7:45 PM ET *

"الله أكبرl"

mikeyg
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11.28.2016 | 8:59 PM ET

@Bigj383, When you get a real argument, let me know.

@Anik, "mikey is clearly someone who prefers to be spoon-fed his information than see the big picture"

This coming from a Muslim...Holy **** bud. Coming from the pleb who has been spoon-fed myths from our ancient past as if it's still relevant or true today when you know damn well Science runs your life in every way, not your ancient myths. You need to see the big picture that your religion is on the wrong side of history and is causing chaos and misery on massive levels worldwide.

"The sheer amount of fallacious reasonings"

Like what? no examples again, how substantive of you. How ironic again, this coming from a religious person is perplexing. Seeing as how your ilk will suspend the very nature of reality to justify your mythology, against all fact, despite all scientific evidence. The market on fallacious reasoning is owned by the religious, deal with it.

"because it's frightening to know that the majority of people think like he does"

And what's wrong with that? I'm still waiting for an argument and not just emotional diarrhea.

"His bigotry is a product of simpleton reasoning"

I had to chuckle again, this coming from a Muslim like yourself who believes in a magically sky daddy. Oh but go ahead and continue with your diatribe of how I'm the biased simpleton lol.

"ehnocentrism, and that's something he'll have to correct"

I don't think it's something to correct to point out some cultures and religions are poison. I could say the same thing, when you grow up and realize western values like; Freedom of speech, Separation of church and state, Freedom of the press, Free expression, Freedom of and from Religion, and all the other non-fascistic ideals we hold dear and many parts of the world do not, thus inferior places that need a renaissance. Pretty simple concept, even for you bud.

"if he's genuinely concerned with finding out the truth then he will make the necessary effort in doing so."

Typical response of someone with no argument, you do the same tactic the SJW's do, I DON'T HAVE TO EDUCATE YOU, EDUCATE YOURSELF, it's a smug sense of self that shows your argument is dog-****. And hey, if you genuinely want to find out how wrong you are about your religion, you'll look into it and realize it's made up, ******.

"But it's ok because I understand his position since I've been in it before. I was an anti-theist who was vehemently against the idea of religion which I thought to be corrupted, controlling and a one way path to idiocy. Needless to say that my stance has changed completely, and that's mostly because I've realized that we are all substantially stupider than we'd like to think. Socrates' sole claim to knowledge was that he 'knew nothing', and I think that that's the ideal foundation for anyone's search for truth in this corrupt world of ours."


You were a staunch Anti-theist then went Muslim? What happened? Brain damage? You must have had terrible reasoning to get to Anti-theist or terrible reasons to go Muslim if you went from that rational position of Anti-theism to full on ****** picking the most backward and barbaric religion in the 21st century. The I was an atheist line is a typical lie that christians pull saying 'I was an atheist, but then Jesus came into my mouth or I saw a sign and I became a christian'. It's a bunch of ********, you were never a skeptic or an Anti-theist if you were so easily swayed by ridiculous mythology.

"Or maybe mikey's just mad that he's still my ***** and this is just all of his pent-up anger towards me."

You never win any argument though lol. Sounds like your ass is sore from all the ****-ownings I've given you throughout the years. Don't worry bud, I forgive you for this indiscretion, you can still be my little butthurt muzzy.

* Edited at 11.28.2016, 9:19 PM ET *

StreamFan68
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11.28.2016 | 9:19 PM ET

"Naaaaawwwwwwww this wouldnt POSSIBLY happen at an event!!"...lmao

"“And tell Dana I said get off Conor’s nuts”....(Nate Diaz) "

Anik
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11.28.2016 | 11:06 PM ET

@mikeyg

I'm not going to argue with you because I genuinely don't care enough about you seeing my position or not. If you want to genuinely understand it then you'll make the effort in doing so, with your own time and your own energy, and not mine.

You keep mentioning an argument like as if I'm trying to have a debate when I genuinely am not. I don't care about your position and I know that it's impossible for me to argue mine to yours because it's a position that goes against reason itself. Furthermore, you're not even arguing because all you've done is made sensational claims without any proof. You claim to be winning an argument that doesn't exist, by virtue of me 'being a Muslim so I must be a ******* idiot' which by the way, is the proof of your fallacious reasoning.

When I talk about your simpleton reasoning, I look at your tendency to blame the entirety of terrorist acts on the doctrine of Islam when you haven't once mentioned the geopolitical events that are crucial to understanding the rise of rebellious groups. But again, these are things you don't want to think about because the easier way out is to blame religion. There's a 400-page book that systematically condemns terrorism with the use of scripture but you won't read a single page because it's easier to blame Islam.

When I refer to simpleton reasoning, I am talking about that and I'm talking about the separation between the ideals we preach and the methods in which they actualize. Just a simple brief study of history will show that the Western ideals of freedom have either been applied at the expense of others, or haven't been applied at all. I'm working on a degree in Western society, so I'm pretty sure that I know a hell of a lot more about it than you do. If you want proof of this, look at western society today, look at government surveillance and look at the systematic corruption at the root of the American economy.



Now call me a liar, but I genuinely was an anti-theist (and not an atheist) and I'm pretty sure there's evidence in my post history on Tapology (you could actually watch me go through the phase that you're currently in. It's hilarious and I'm not talking about anti-theism, I'm talking about your insecurity).

If you're genuinely curious, I was an anti-theist primarily because I saw the effects of religion in the radicalism of the Middle East and I saw the history of Christianity and thought that they were the root of many evils in this world. The lack of empirical proof made it logical to not believe in the existence of some 'invisible man in the sky', and the religious ferocity of believers put me off so much more. They were concerned with mashing their beliefs down my throat, and I hated that because I have always felt that I could make my own decisions for myself, and I don't need anyone to tell me what to do.

I feel like these are (at least partly) the same reasons why you (and everyone else on this forum it seems) identify with anti-theism. Because I've been in your shoes before, I understand your position and it's one that I am completely okay with. You have to understand that because I was an anti-theist for so long, my social circle primarily consists of people who are atheists. Like I mentioned, my field is Western society so you're definitely not the first person who's tried to come at me before.



But while I have been in your shoes you haven't been in mine, so there's no point in trying to shove you into them. Instead I will just remind you that you mikey, will always be my *****.

EDIT: Just to add on that '*****' fact, don't forget that day that I was on the IRC for UFC 205. Everyone saw you trying to be nice to me, but after calling you my ***** for the 10th time you flipped your **** and rage-quit. Don't forget that either, *****.

* Edited at 11.28.2016, 11:23 PM ET *

"الله أكبرl"

Bigj383
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11.28.2016 | 11:28 PM ET

Mikey my argument is your views are distorted by bigotry making your views biased. My argument is your preconceived views makes it impossible for you to be objective. That you are so blinded by hate you could never look at these issues for actual solutions without generalizing an entire religion. Any information you receive that goes against your preconceived notions are ignored. I know this because you made a claim that 99% of terrorist shout Alluha Akbar before killing civilians yet that vast majority of terrorists aren't even Muslim. 

"It does not make sense that humans deliberately malfunction. - Upgrade"

Buk7550
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11.29.2016 | 12:01 AM ET

99% 
Sounds like a completely legit stat. 
Anik
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11.29.2016 | 12:11 AM ET

99% of legit stats aren't legit.

"الله أكبرl"

GreenHornet
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11.29.2016 | 2:39 AM ET

@bigj




Most terror groups aren't Islamic you say?

Well allow me to burst your ******* bubble.  I have linked right here the 2015 Global Terrorism Index done by the Institute of Economics and Peace; and it is highly considered as the most accurate report for 2015.

To sum up its content in a TL;DR form, here are the following crucial points:

- The Top 5 Terrorists Groups in the world are all Islamic (Boko Haram, ISIL, the Taliban, Al Shabaab, and the Fulani Militants), with Boko Haram being the top terrorism group in the world
- The only Terrorist Group that remotely came close to any of the Islamic terrorist groups in terms of murder rate is the Colombian Communist guerrilla group FARC (who just recently signed a ceasefire treaty with the Colombian government)
- Of the top 10 countries that are plagued by terrorist attacks, the overwhelming majority have an Islamic majority populace (with the two major exceptions being India and Thailand)
- In 9 of the top 10 countries plagued by terrorism, the majority of the attacks were carried out by Islamic terrorist groups (with India being the exception as the Maoist Communist Party of India carried out the majority of India's terrorist attacks)
- From a time span of 2000 to 2015, worldwide terrorism has increase nine fold in terms of the number of deaths, with the largest increase coming in 2013 to 2014 in Nigeria with fatalities rising to 7,512 people (most of which came by the hands of Boko Haram)

Still want to say that most terrorism isn't Islamic?  Radical Islamic Terrorism (as well as terrorism in general) is a global phenomenon.  Just because the bulk of Islamic Terrorism doesn't happen in the West, doesn't mean it doesn't exist you prig.  Boko Haram is leading a scorched earth campaign to flip Nigeria from being a secular state into an Islamic caliphate led by the Northern Nigerian tribes.  The Fulani Militants and Al-Shabaab are slaughtering innocents in Kenya and Somalia all because of Kenya's interference to stop the chaos that is the failed state of Somalia.  In Pakistan, the Teriki Taliban are trying to keep Pakistan in the stone age by bombing schools to prevent children from getting educated. In Yemen, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and the Houthi Rebels helped contribute to making Yemen a failed state. 

Islamic Terrorism is real and it shows the true barbarity of religion, and of Islam in particular.

* Edited at 11.29.2016, 3:24 AM ET *

"Smoke 'em if ya got 'em."

GreenHornet
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11.29.2016 | 3:01 AM ET

And before anyone tries to foolishly argue...



and wants to bring up the most irrelevant argument anyone could use in this sort of deal whenever Islamic terrorism is brought up, let me shoot down the Crusades argument for you right now.  There are more relevant and important events that happened in shaping modern history than the First through Third Crusades. The Crusades of the Middle East, which happened 900 YEARS AGO, formed a failed state Kingdom of Jerusalem that would fall into the hands of the Ayyubids in 1187.  Meanwhile, there were three more crusades that were more significant in shaping geopolitics for years to come.  Those being the Fourth Crusade, the Baltic Crusades by the Teutonic Knights, and the Reconquista.  The Fourth Crusade weakened the Byzantine Empire, prevented them from being able to reclaim Anatolia, and eventually helped lead to the rise of the Turkish Ottoman Caliphate.  The Baltic Crusades led by the Teutonic Knights, in which a group of monastic German noblemen butchered non Christian Poles, Latvians, and Lithuanians, led to the creation of the state of Prussia. Finally, and most importantly, the Reconquista led to the rise of Spain and Portugal and the end of Islamic influence in Western Europe.

More importantly, all you are arguing is a case of moral relativism.  That murder isn't a crime, it is just a justification for other murders, that moral standards are irrelevant and don't exist, and that people should only follow the rules set by those who wield the biggest knife and threaten to kill you. 

To me, that is an abominable way to think.

* Edited at 11.29.2016, 3:06 AM ET *

"Smoke 'em if ya got 'em."

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