Topic: Regulation, USADA, & PEDs

Fallon Fox forced retirement?

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Kpro
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11.15.2014 | 10:43 AM ET

Testosterone is a banned substance now that TRT is illegal so female to male transgender people by rule can't fight.  No gray area in the wording.  Is his/her career over?  I don't see a way around it.  Just hadn't seen a story on it.

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benjaminbrandt
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11.15.2014 | 10:52 AM ET

Wouldn't he be taking estrogen?  

He would be naturally producing test.

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2 Nyce
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11.15.2014 | 10:56 AM ET

Not if his balls are chopped of he wouldn't. I think.
Kpro
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11.15.2014 | 10:59 AM ET

I'll have to read what hormone ****tails are required in a situation like that.

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benjaminbrandt
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11.15.2014 | 11:02 AM ET

Wikipedia says testicles are the primary producers on test, so no balls = no test.  The adrenal glands produce some test.  Fallon doesn't have ovaries, so he has to artificially take estrogen.  

I'm not sure it will ever come up in a commission's licensing decision, but if it does I guarantee Fallon will scream discrimination.  

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Kpro
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11.15.2014 | 11:26 AM ET

Estrogen is the main hormone in stimulating bone formation and slowing bone loss.

In both sexes, the hypothalamus releases GnRH (gonadotropin-releasing hormone) to stimulate the pituitary to produce LH (luteinizing hormone) and FSH (follicle-stimulating hormone) which in turn cause the gonads to produce sex steroids even in male to female transgenders.


GnRH analogues are often prescribed to prevent the reactivation of testicular function


The high cost of GnRH analogues is often a significant factor in if someone pursues it.


I could see her situation at least brought up.

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benjaminbrandt
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11.15.2014 | 11:39 AM ET

I love when basic human evolution gives modern science a run for its money.  

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Blackwork
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11.15.2014 | 12:47 PM ET

"Testosterone is a banned substance now that TRT is illegal so female to male transgender people by rule can't fight."


The issues concerning Fox fighting women have nothing to do with TRT. In about 2004, the International Olympic Committee issued guidelines on when transgender fighters may compete in the Olympics. In General, the athlete has to have gone through sex reassignment surgery and been on testosterone suppressing hormones (in the case of male-to-female changes) for a period of two years, I think. 


As I understand it, some athletic commissions have essentially adopted these guidelines, which has allowed Fox to fight women, even after learning that Fox was a man. In a nutshell, there is debate over the rigor of the analysis that resulted in the IOC's guidelines, and at a minimum, there isn't a unanimous opinion in the medical community concerning male-to-female athletes having advantages over female athletes, particularly in combat sports. It's complicated by the fact Fox did not go through the surgery and hormone therapy until Fox was something like 30 years old, which means Fox went through puberty as a male, fully developing the body of a man with whatever advantages that may have for fighting. People contrast that with, let's say, a transgender male-to-female athlete who never went through puberty and therefore may not have whatever advantages that might provide a combat sport athlete.


It's an interesting debate. My personal view is that the scientific research isn't as comprehensive as it should be, and that any question should be resolved in favor of protecting the athletes participating in combat sports. 

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Griffy
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11.15.2014 | 2:07 PM ET

Blackwork, I believe you brought up the most critical point in this debate - whether are not the fighter went through puberty as their birth-gender.

Because if Fox or any athlete goes through puberty as a male then they still have larger muscle fibers and stronger ligaments (which someone please correct me if I am wrong, but neither of those change with all the surgeries/hormone ****tails).

Finally, even if organizations allow fighters who have done male-to-female operations, they still have to find women who are willing to fight them. Say what you will, but being honest here, the fight community isn't generally the most open-minded when it comes to these sort of things.

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Lopati
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11.15.2014 | 3:06 PM ET

The fact Fallon fought twice without disclosing her gender reassignment tells me she knew/knows what she is doing is wrong! 

"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it." Jose Ortega y Gasset

TheTnuggs
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11.15.2014 | 3:20 PM ET

^basically sums it up

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CthulhuJones
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11.15.2014 | 3:24 PM ET

Athletic commissions should have the ability to examine a fighters genitals and if everything doesn't add up they should be stripped of their license. Think of it like their wraps, only way grosser.
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TheTnuggs
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11.15.2014 | 4:07 PM ET

i dont really think genitals have anything to do with it, moreso the hormones 

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mikeyg
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11.15.2014 | 4:18 PM ET


I used to be against the whole Fallon fox situation, but ever since Ashley Evans Smith beat the **** out of her, I no longer feel like it's this huge advantage, she's not bulky, she's pretty averaged sized for the weight class and plenty of girls could beat her.
@benjaminrbrandt

That's incredibly rude to refer to Fallon Fox as a he, show some respect please.
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Griffy
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11.15.2014 | 4:39 PM ET

@mikeyg, but what if a fighter is in the same position as Fox but is beating their opponents? This isn't a topic that can be ruled from fighter to fighter. Eventually commissions will need to make this black and white.

"I think Gayffy suits you better, because you are gay." - Nomad

benjaminbrandt
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11.15.2014 | 4:43 PM ET

I don't see gender or race, just chromosomes.  

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CthulhuJones
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11.15.2014 | 4:47 PM ET

Lol @ people taking my comment seriously.
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mikeyg
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11.15.2014 | 4:50 PM ET

@griffy, the world isn't black and white, there is nuance, what you people are trying to do is strip the situation of nuance and if it must be black and white who gives a **** anymore, there was no huge advantage for Fallon and she's a damn good fighter. @benjamin And obviously you do see gender here as you continuously called her a he and you won't rescind that bigoted comment.
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Lopati
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11.15.2014 | 4:56 PM ET

Would anyone allow a female to male transgender compete in mma?



NO

"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it." Jose Ortega y Gasset

mikeyg
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11.15.2014 | 4:59 PM ET

Sure they would. Cyborg for example could whoop a lot of guys ass, just for perspective.
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Lopati
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11.15.2014 | 5:01 PM ET

MikeyG, what is your opinion on the fact that Fallon didn't disclose her gender reassignment until her 3rd fight and that was because her opponent found out not because she thought it was right. 

"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it." Jose Ortega y Gasset


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