Jon Fitch vs. Erick Silva for 153.

Just saw this...thoughts?

"You must think Matt Serra is better than GSP too then...

and don't say the reason you don't is because of you saw the rematch. Anyone should have known when that happened that it was a fluke and that it wouldn't happen again in a 100 fights, sometimes **** just happens."




Is there a thumbs up icon because I really can't agree with this more.

I'm guessing Fitch's career will go steadily downhill because of the situation Bill just talked about. People don't really want him to win, and that tends to take away a fighters confidence . Sure, all fighters have haters, but Fitch has almost a complete lack of fan support. It will be hard for him to win it back and if he doesn't I don't think he will be able to keep blanketing opponents 

The fighting game is a "what have you done for me lately" business. The double standard that Bill pointed out on Fitch is perfectly reasonable. Is it fair? Perhaps not. But you can't argue that Fitch doesn't really have a lot of momentum as of late and anything but a dominant win over Silva is going to leave the UFC brass unimpressed. If he beats him convincingly, then maybe he gets cut a little bit slack over the defeat to Hendricks and he definitely should get a top 10 opponent. But if he doesn't, or worst case scenario [he loses], then the critics will be validated in their stance that the guy was severely overrated for years and Hendricks's victory seems all the more legitimate. It's not a lose-lose for Fitch, but it has the potential to get ridiculously bad for him. On the other hand, a Silva win can do one of two things. If he wins impressively, he might get an immediate number one contender fight (although I stand by my previous stance that he will still get one more "test"). If he barely squeaks past Fitch, I expect him to get another top 10 guy before possibly getting a number one contender fight.

* Edited at 08.01.2012, 1:54 AM ET *

"Rory beat Nate Diaz and Mike Pyle.  Erick beat Charlie Brenneman.  Rory won beating Condit until the last minute of their fight and only the ref saved the win for Carlos by stopping the fight 8 seconds before the final bell."


Rory was getting destroyed that why the fight was stopped the way you word it is like the reff gave condit the fight. Condit WON the fight.

"I'm going mostly by how Rory manhandled Carlos Condit.  For 2.5 rounds,"

Rory did not man handle Condit for 2.5 rounds.  He won the first round clearly, but the second round was way closer then your implying. Rory was winning because of his agression and being on top, but there striking was pretty dam close for lot of the second round and Rory ended up on top on the ground but he couldent even land anything from on top by the second round. Even in the first round Condit pretty much nutralized Rory attack on the ground. You may want to re watch it. Rory did very well on the feet in the first round and mixed it up pretty well but Condit did not really get hit much when he was on his back.  

" he won all the exchanges, "
No he did not. That is gross exaggeration. Condit won a lot of exchanages. Second round striking was pretty close and Condit won the third pretty much from 35 second mark in.

"took Carlos down at will, "
No he did not. Condit stuff a number of take down, and lot of the times he even ended up on the ground was when he went for subbs. Rory was not taking Condit down at will and most of the take down came from when condit was throwing crazy knee and throwing kicks.


"and dominated him on the ground. "
No he did not. Condit pretty neutralize rory offense most of the fight. Not sure what you remembering but condit did not get hit very much on the ground at all. And actually pretty much avoided Rory attacks from on top and did pretty dam good job of controlling rory from off his back.

" The only reason he lost was the ref couldn't wait 8 seconds."
What? Why should the reff wait? Rory was getting messed up, the clock time should be irrelevent.Fight should not be allowed to go on simply because there only few seconds left, if they guy getting beat on and the ref think he should stop it, then he should. Think it not only dangerous but defeats the point if they simply let some one get there ass kick simply because they know there only few second left. if they plan to stop it the amount of time should be irrelevant.Also Rory stated that Condit kick his ass and the stoppage was legit

"But if you want to ignore all that and pretend it didn't happen, that's fine.  Rory's performance against Condit was easily more impressive than what Erick did with Brenneman, a much easier fighter."

Thought I agree fighting condit like that is more impressive then finishing Brenneman. Rory still lost, it not a win and should not be counted as such. Rory needs some bigger names win and also there not rushing him to the title becuase he wont fight george.

* Edited at 08.01.2012, 2:13 AM ET *

Boy, Franklin, do you and I see things differently.  But since you disagreed with civility and respect, I will respond likewise.

Someone else asked me, what do I want?  For Rory to be killed?  I submit that Rory was not being mauled past his danger point.  At first, Rogan and Goldberg were calling the fight from Condit's  side but were forced to switch pretty fast because Rory was giving it to him pretty good.

Despite what you said, I submit that the ref stopped the fight prematurely.  I believe that Rory suffered a broken orbital bone on his eyebrow.  It was a lump.  But that was no reason to stop the fight with 8 seconds left.  Rory was not absorbing damage worse that I have seen 100 times before.

Koscheck suffered a broken orbital bone from GSP and fought for 4 rounds with it, even not being able to see GSP's left hook coming in.  Yet the ref didn't stop the fight.  I've seen Hominick fight with a HUGE bulge on his forehead and the ref didn't stop the fight.  I saw Shane Carwin hit Lesnar with everything but the kitchen sink and the ref let it go.

I've seen so much blood galore in some fights and the refs let the fight go on.  Remember when BJ gave Joe Stevenson a bloodbath?  Remember Diego Sanchez in the Kampmann fight?  I once saw a WW guy named Dweez or something spurt so much blood from his forehead that I thought he was going to bleed out in the Octagon!

And yet you sissies cry that the ref HAD to stop the MacDonald fight???  What babies you crybabies are.  This is fighting.  This is combat.  

Boy, Franklin, do you and I see things differently.  But since you disagreed with civility and respect, I will respond likewise."

Someone else asked me, what do I want?  For Rory to be killed?  I submit that Rory was not being mauled past his danger point."

I thinkg the fight should have been stopped because Rory was getting messed up, but I agree it was not life threatening. I am just of the opinion that that time left in the fight should not be determining factor if the fight should be stopped or not. The reff in my opinion should not even factor the time into the fight. If reff thinks the guy is done, then it should be stopped I dont believe they should take more shots simply because there is not much time on the clock. if they would have stopped the fight with a minute left, then they should still stop it with seconds left. I dont believe time should be factor into decisions to stop fights.

 “ At first, Rogan and Goldberg were calling the fight from Condit's  side but were forced to switch pretty fast because Rory was giving it to him pretty good."

Rory came out strong in the first, but I don’t really think they were ever calling it for condit. Think  rogan got little over zelous at times especially in the second and made it sound way more one sided then it was.

“Despite what you said, I submit that the ref stopped the fight prematurely.  I believe that Rory suffered a broken orbital bone on his eyebrow.  It was a lump.  But that was no reason to stop the fight with 8 seconds left.  Rory was not absorbing damage worse that I have seen 100 times before.”

I disagree and so does rory and condit. Rory stated right after the fight that it was a fair stoppages and has never said anything otherwise. He even admitted he was getting beat on. Rory was getting beat on for the majority of the round repeatedly taking shots. He was done.  The amount of time elft should be irrelevant. The reff stopped the fight because he believe rory had enough, the fact there was little time on the clock should not have any bearing on his choice to stop the fight.  Rory backup the reff saying it was a good stoppage.

 “Koscheck suffered a broken orbital bone from GSP and fought for 4 rounds with it, even not being able to see GSP's left hook coming in.  Yet the ref didn't stop the fight.  I've seen Hominick fight with a HUGE bulge on his forehead and the ref didn't stop the fight. “

Neither one of those fights was the same thing at all. It was not stopped because he had a bump. It waqs stopped because he was being mauled  for the entire round and then mounted. Rory was being dominated completely. Kos was still standing and just being jabbed. That not the same thing at all. Rory was being unloaded on and then condit was on top of him landing shot after shot and rory was doing nothing but getting beat on.  As with kos, hominick was still righting back. They did not stop the fight

because rory had a bump. Your arguing apples to oranges. The fight was stopped being he was being beat on then Condit was on top of him unloading.

 “I saw Shane Carwin hit Lesnar with everything but the kitchen sink and the ref let it go.”

Yes and?  That supposes to invalidate Condit win because?   There been numerous fight stopped well before that fight and they are not consider bad stoppages.  Just because not every fighter is allowed to get his ass kicked until the bell does not back them bad stoppages, and that was the first round.  Rorry was gassed completely out and was getting tooled on. If there was a forth round he had no chance of winning. He lost the fight. Lesnar wasn’t gassed and was still capable of beating his opponent Rorry was not. He needed to win on points and the reff saw enough. He got beat for the entire round.

 “I've seen so much blood galore in some fights and the refs let the fight go on.”

Again that irrelevant. It was not stopped because of the blood or gore. It was stopped because Rorry was getting lit up the entire round and did not have the energy to defend himself. The fact other fights have more blood does not make this a bad stoppage. Your still arguing apples and oranges.

 “ Remember when BJ gave Joe Stevenson a bloodbath? “

That fight was stopped via choke. Again your fixating on the wrong things. Some people bleed a lot it and some don’t does not make it a bad stoppage because they did not have blood everywhere.

 

 “Remember Diego Sanchez in the Kampmann fight?”

Yes and? Shanchez was winning the last round, it not the same thing at all. Sanchez had plenty of energy and was completely with it. He was fighting back. Rorry was on the defensive for pretty much the entire round.

 “And yet you sissies cry that the ref HAD to stop the MacDonald fight???  What babies you crybabies are.  This is fighting.  This is combat.  “

What nonsense are you rambling on about.  Amount of blood is irrelevant it was not stopped due to a cut. It stupid argument, there plenty of fights where the guy does not bleed and it stopped. Friggin kampman was tko while he was still STANDING. 

 Rorry agreed with the stoppage.

* Edited at 08.01.2012, 3:33 AM ET *

You know, Franklin.  I thought this was going to be calm and civil but you just don't get it.  Fine.  

I mentioned the time factor of 8 seconds several times and I should NOT have mentioned it WHATSOEVER.  OK?  The 8 seconds is not the relevant factor.  

The relevant factor is that MacDonald was not absorbing more damage than I've seen over and over and over and over in a hundred other fights that were NOT stopped.  OK???  Am I being any more clear for you now?

I saw Brock Lesnar maul Heath Herring for 3 rounds MUCH worse than Condit was hitting MacDonald and the ref didn't do a thing.  Herring was beaten like a dog and was in a defensive turtle most of the 15 minutes, did not offer any defense but the ref did not stop anything.  Herring was on the bottom taking one huge bomb after another and there was no stoppage.  

And for your information, Rory was winning half the last round before Carlos started to gain the upper hand.  Rory was gassing like hundreds of other fighters, he was on the bottom taking shots, and not swinging back, like many other fights that were not stopped.

The 8 seconds had NOTHING to do with anything, and I shouldn't even have muddied the waters by mentioning it.  But MacDonald was in no danger worse than so many other fights.

But you know what, Franklin?  We're never going to agree so let's just let this useless exchange go.  You are not going to change my mind, and yours is not going to change either.  So, let's just walk away and let it go.  

We disagree with respect.  No harm, no foul.  No big deal.  I don't give in just because someone gets frustrated with my opinions.  I've stood my ground, so have you.  Let's just walk away.

We'll both see what happens with Fitch vs. Silva.  This little spat is off-topic anyway.

* Edited at 08.01.2012, 10:30 AM ET *

10-8 for Franklin.

i think that if you beat someone, you should be ahead of him in the rankings. 
these are current rankings, not all-time or the last 3-5 years.
and i think the UFC is with me in this one.

no point in debating whether wins count or not. rankings change.
Serra beat GSP, then for that while he was #1. After GSP beat him, he went back to the top.

Uh oh...

And Fitch thought Hendricks hit him hard...

I give this fight to fitch, obviously via decision.. he was caught with a lucky, albeit ******* awesome shot by hendricks, but I dont see silva pulling it off in the same fashion.

@A_Arnoud  Your belief in such Rankings is perfect, for you.  It all depends on what Rankings mean to each of us.

For some of us, they are 'In the Moment', meaning who won the last fights.  Fine and dandy, for THEM.

For others of us, Rankings represent more than the Last Moments.  I've seen Rankings where they will continue to rank fighters who changed divisions.  Jake Shields was ranked a MW by many discussion boards even after he moved down to WW.  And some even now might continue to rank him a WW, despite the fact that he moved back up to MW.

See the point?  Rankings vary for each of us individually.  Is that not an obvious statement?  So, even though you are perfectly within your rights to rank as you feel appropriate, why would you deny me and other of the same rights you insist for yourself?  That sounds a bit selfish, doesn't it?  

And the UFC?  It doesn't have rankings, because they reserve their rights to do whatever the hell they want to.  But they do base their match-making as if they are 'in the moment' most times, but not always.  Just as they do their match-making as if there is a theoretical tournament in progress.

You go to your MMA church, I'll remain an MMA atheist.

* Edited at 08.01.2012, 10:40 AM ET *

bill burgess is at a 12 post ratio %. at this pace he will catch up to the person who disagrees with him most. congrats Mr burgess. I am  a great supporter of your posts.

* Edited at 08.01.2012, 10:45 AM ET *

you guys are ******* (sorry russello), I didn't say all comebacks. I was talking about comebacks in general, sometimes they're legitimate and sometimes they're not. just like the people posting in this thread, sometimes they can be smart and sometimes they can be total ******* (sorry again russello).

everyone's talking about Erick Silva just 'cause they wanna see Fitch lose, you (once again, soz russell). Well guess what, he won't because HE'S AWESOME. Unlike you Fitch-hating (you get it), whenever the topic of Jon Fitch is brought up in these forums it's followed by the coming out party of all of the "Just Bleed" guys in the community. I thought more of us appreciated technique but I guess I was wrong, sorry for overestimating the MMA community.

* Edited at 08.01.2012, 11:53 AM ET *

Anik delete that man. Delete it before Mods get angry.

Very nice match-up indeed. Looking forward to it.
Rooting for Fitch here personally :) I guess that leaves me as some of the lonely few ^^ 

@wolf  Man, I could NEVER have done it without YOU, Anik, buffalo ben, and all my other supporters.  It is a sad thing that it took so many of my allies up-arrowing me to counteract the down-arrows of my haters.  Kind of brings down the noble purpose of this amazing, wonderful Tapology community.

To my haters - Is following me around, down-arrowing me accomplishing that much to you?  Really.  Think of all the noble causes you could be doing with your time.  Everyone here knows me and has formed a definite opinion of me.
You're not going to change many minds at this late date.  But just to show you my heart remains pure and in the right place, please let me assist you in finding more productive things you could do with that time.

1. Find a job
2. Pay your child support
3. Settle your lawsuits
4. Return calls to your Parole Officer
5. Make up with your boyfriend
6. Mend fences with TRW and your former credit card companies
7. Make an appointment with your doctor to continue with your syphilis treatments
8. Search for new hair replacement therapies
9. Order more Viagra
10. Arrange with your attorney to surrender to the Police Dept. for domestic violence.  Stop running!

See?  Your time has been mismanaged.  (Brought to you by Creative Writing 101 in conjunction with Humor Works, Inc.)

@Bill that ****s not funny...I know people right now who are going through some **** on your list that they didn't do, but because some ******* crack***** and her dealer said they did they're out $10+ grand due to having to prove their innocence because the the country we live in forgot that little part of the consititution "Innocent until proven guilty"

@soccer  I know your posts and you're a good man.  Much respect.  This thread needs humor to lighten things up.  Desperately.  

I also know a good guy who's been locked up because a woman claimed he ****d her 10 years before.  But that does not mean this thread doesn't need some humor.  People here take sports too seriously.  We need to learn to laugh and get more fun out of life.  My silly post need not be taken so seriously.  Please smile?

yes this thread does need humor, before i find one of these people and front kick 'em in the face.