John Cholish retires and criticises fighter payment

Cholish had a relative short career and is now retired from the fight business with only 29 years of age. It doesn't suprise me that much because he has another good job at wall street and was doing MMA only as a hobby.

But what caught my attention was what he had to say about the fighter payment. Here's a quote...

"At the end of the day, it's hard. I have great coaches that take time off and travel. They deserve money, as well. To be completely honest, on a fight like this, I'm losing money to come down here. Flights, hotel rooms, food -- and that doesn't even cover the cost of the time I have to pay for my coaches for training. It's funny because people talk about the fighters, but at the same time there's camps and coaches behind the fighters that you don't even see. So if a fighter is having a tough time making ends meet, how do you think his coaches are doing?" - link

Do you guys think the fighters on the lower level even in the UFC get payed enough ? There was a Bleacher Report article (I know I know) not too long ago about the published UFC contract of Eddie Alvarez. Some interesting thoughts/facts from this article....

"As a private company, the UFC doesn't have to report its revenues, cash flow or profit margins to anyone. According to a recent profile in Fast Company, the promotion makes in the neighborhood of $600 million per year, though Fertitta says that number is overstated. The UFC is worth north of $2 billion, making it a more valuable property than even the legendary New York Yankees, Major League Baseball's perpetual cash machine.Yet despite this success, Fertitta told ESPN that in the seven years since the company started regularly turning a profit, they have paid out just $250 million total to the athletes" - link


Do you guys think something has to change to build more talent or just help those guys out that are fighting on the low end of divisions ? I mena I know of several UFC fighters who have jobs or need jobs to pay the bills. Mike Russow, Ivan Menjivar, Robbie Peralta to name a few.

Shouldn't they be as soon as they reach the UFC level be able to pay all their bills and spend all their focus on the fight game?

What ya think Tapology?

I'm fairly certain that the UFC covers flights and hotel rooms, so I'm not sure what he's talking about.  The fact of the matter is that as a UFC fighter you are not going to make a ton of money right away.  Only very good fighters are getting rich, and that's par for the course.  

I don't think many UFC fighters are losing money being part of the UFC, this is probably more a matter of poor money management than anything else.  Bear in mind that any UFC fighter gets money from sponsors in addition to what the UFC pays them.  I think it's sour g****s and/or a sense of entitlement on Cholish's part.

* Edited at 05.20.2013, 10:51 AM ET *

I like the UFC model . I think athletes get way over paid in other sports . The majority of thier pay should be from sponsors . If you are good at your job you get rewarded by sponsors . Why should the UFC pay 10-20k for a guy thats unproven and will most likely go 2 and out and not make them any money.

I do think the UFC should cover plane tickets and hotel costs for the fighter and maybe 1 coach . If your job sends you out of town . you're most likely not covering those expenses.

But anyway I like how they do it .   6-8k per fight for a newbie times 3 fights a year is  18-24k a year .Forgot to mention you usually get paid a extra 6k-8k if you win, more incentive to do good at your job . A lot of people would like to make that money. Plus if you do good at your job you get bonuses that are huge for KOTN , SOTN ,FOTN . and you get sponsorship money. then if you are good at what you do you get a huge bump in pay on your next contract.  

I just love how a guy who couldnt cut it complains about pay after he got paid thousands to lose and leaves. Its not like people turned on FX to watch Cholish.

* Edited at 05.20.2013, 10:59 AM ET *

People are generally paid what they are worth.  How many Brazilians bought a ticket because Cholish was on the undercard?  Nobody but the hardcores even know who he is.  

Cholish is in the business of eating what he kills, if you don't kill something and drag it back to the cave, don't complain when you're hungry.   

I think the UFC does it perfectly so I have no idea what Cholish is complaining about. Isn't he like a stock broker in NYC also? I mean if you look at boxing, the first fight of the night each guy might only make about 500 bucks each whereas Floyd will bank a purse of about 30 million not even including his slice of the PPV revenue. 

When it comes to money the UFC are incredibly generous in most situations. Bonuses, discreet private bonuses, paying you if you get robbed of a decision and especially paying for your medical bills which was a huge announcement back when it happened. I do think they could raise their minimum pay to maybe 10-15k seeing as these guys train incredibly hard but as it stand no one gets ripped off.

Maybe if Cholish chose between his job and being in the UFC then he wouldn't have this problem. If you're going to half ass an MMA career then don't complain about pay when you lose.

I initially thought the UFC contracts were alright but after reading the standard ZUFFA contract given to fighters, I agree with John Cholish; fighter pay is ****** up and people don't even realize how bad it is.

Think of it this way; a guy who gets into the UFC and loses 3 fights in one year before getting cut is going to make 24,000 dollars. Plus that fighter has to spend money on providing for himself, paying for his training camps and paying for people in his corner before his fights. That...is ****** up.

The UFC makes way too much money to have employees that ******* struggle to live and need second jobs. They're the highest standard in their sport; their lowest fighters should be making enough to be able to support themselves easily. The UFC's a 2 billion dollar enterprise, they definitely have the money.

@jodybanman The UFC covers two economy class seats for flights and they cover one hotel room for two other people. For champions, they cover an extra flight ticket and an extra person. The rest is on the fighters.

I'm sorry but that's just ****** up. Like it's almost criminal for ****'s sake.

The fighters in the UFC need a union. The UFC's got the 'We are the 99%' **** going on, it's horrible. It's criminal. It's disgusting.

EDIT: I just wanna say that if anyone has the time, read the ZUFFA contract sent to Eddie Alvarez. I was disgusted at how awful and vicious those contracts are, let alone how people keep signing with them. The UFC contracts are not for your fighting career, they're for your life.

EDIT AGAIN: It was the 'lucrative' ZUFFA contract, not one of the contracts given to the lower guys. Imagine how much worse those are, it makes me sick to my stomach.

EDIT FOR A FINAL TIME: Totally didn't notice that die posted a link to it, to be honest I didn't even read the opening post. My bad.

* Edited at 05.20.2013, 11:28 AM ET *

I do think with what the UFC makes they could afford to pay all the fighters more. On the flip side people should know if you're getting into MMA to get rich you will be disappointed in a big way unless you can get a Nike contract or a Gatorade deal. 

Anik the UFC does need a union. Badly. 

* Edited at 05.20.2013, 11:13 AM ET *

Cholish said on his Twitter before the fight with Tibau even happend win or lose that this would be his last fight. I don't think he is all sour g****s and he has a point imo. He got payed 4000/4000 for his first fight say 20% go to his camp/trainers and another 10% to his manager and 10% training partners and training camp. That leaves him with 4800 $ which aren't tax free.

I dunno how accurate that is and I dunno how much a fighter gets payed for his first fight in the UFC on sponsor money but I doubt he can make a good living fighting 2 or 3 times a year on that.

I'm also not complaining about the stars of MMA they get enough, it's about the guys who just get started.

@P4PGOAT read the BR article I listed, they say the UFC makes ca. 600$ a year but payed the fighters in the 7 years just 250$ That number could be higher don't you think ?

I wouldn't doubt for one second that the UFC makes more $ then that. Supposedly there's all these unseen bonuses that fighters get but there's no way to know if that's true or how much they are for. The UFC could easily pay more. I don't think anyone is saying pay a undercard fighter a million dollars but at least give him enough that he's comfortable and can pay his team a reasonable amount. 

If you're on the UFC roster then obviously they think enough of you that you deserve to fight at the pinnacle of the sport. The pay should show that. 

Everyone is paid what they are worth.  That applies to the UFC as well.  If the UFC was criminally underpaying their fighters,  fighters wouldn't be kicking down the UFC's door to fight for them.  I really hate it when people say someone makes "too much" money.  Who are you to decide what is fair compensation?  

If a company makes a compelling product,  people will buy it.  The better the product, the more buyers, then more compensation.   

Same rules apply to fighters when you think about it.  

That is why Cholish quit!  The UFC is the one of the few ways you can make money by being the best at what you do! A BA in business isn't going to stop a rear-naked choke!  This isn,t a bucket-list adventure! This is the real deal!

Of course it can and it should be higher.

I forgot what the split is now in the NHL after the new CBA but last season, 57% of the revenue went to the players. In the NBA and NFL, I believe the number is around 50%.

In 7 years, the UFC's made approx. 4.2 billion and they've paid out 250 million. That is a total of 16.8%.

Borderline criminal.

EDIT: Also, why do people bring up potential locker room bonuses? Those only occur if the UFC feels like giving it. The basic floor of the UFC's fighter payments should be enough for a fighter to support themselves without working other jobs.

* Edited at 05.20.2013, 11:27 AM ET *

@Ben Yes and no, it's not a free market in that sense. The UFC has the power you can't ignore that. Wouldn't you agree that a guy like Nate Diaz has a good name and people tune in to see him? He is a "good product" yet...

His last payment was 15,000 he has 18 fights in the UFC btw.

* Edited at 05.20.2013, 11:33 AM ET *

He wouldn't have to pay tax on $4800 if he has all those expenses. As an independent contractor you can write all of that stuff off, he'd  probably even get money back (maybe not him if he has a high paying job but the fighters who's only source of income is fighting).

Nate got paid 50k to lose to benson and he probably would have got another 15k if he beat thompson . but instead he lost and he got paid a lot more than most losers because of the facr hes popular and has been in the UFC for a while.  Ill take 65k to lose two fights convincingly

@Mike

Fair enough but are they independent contractors? Don't they work for the UFC? I have no clue what I know is that 4800 isn't much when you only get this 2 times a year...

@curt

Darren Uyenoyama: $12,000 lost
Ramsey Nijem: $14,000 lost
Lorenz Larkin: $23,000 lost
Darren Elkins: $24,000 lost
Jordan Mein: $16,000 lost

those guys were all on the same card with Nate, you are wrong...

The full UFC on FOX 5 payouts included:

Benson Henderson: $78,000 (includes $39,000 win bonus)
def. Nate Diaz: $50,000

Josh Thomson: $95,000 (includes $10,000 win bonus)
def. Nate Diaz: $15,000


source is MMAjunkie not bleacher report

@dielegende23 It is common knowledge that UFC fighters are independent contractors.

The problem is that the UFC, instead of paying their fighters like the elite athletes they are, choose to pay UFC fighters just enough to be considered more 'generous' than the other competitors in the market. I mean c'mon guys, look at the Nazi **** Bellator pulls.

You mention Nate only making 15, 000 but in his time with the UFC he has earned over 900, 000 dollars. He has a six figure annual income. That is just disclosed pay. That doesn't include sponsorships, appearance fees undisclosed bonuses etc. 

Most athletes are overpaid. They make a living doing what they love. If they don't love it MMA is not for them.