Open Thread

Should elbows on the ground be illegal?

Brazilian Jitz
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05.28.2012 | 1:04 AM ET

I think they should, and here is why.

For the most part, elbows on the ground cause cuts, that don't directly end fights, but indirectly do. Understand, i do think standing elbows are effective, and dont often cut their opponents due to angle of the strike. But I do not think cutting someone and winning via cut in a legitimate way to win. While it can happen with punches and kicks, it happens all to frequently with elbows on the ground. Cain vs Bigfoot is a good example on how quickly a fight can change witha  sharp elbow... Machida Jones, florian leben - and even afetr a fighter is KO'd Ludwig Hardy. I just think the cuts suffered are unnecessary and can fuck over a fighters career because of soft tissue (Bonnar, Sherk)
















* Edited at 05.28.2012, 1:04 AM ET *

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Live2wrestle
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05.28.2012 | 3:01 PM ET

Ground and pound is just as big of an aspect of grappling as subs and sweeps



Edit: How is getting rid of strikes going to stop lnp?

* Edited at 05.28.2012, 3:03 PM ET *

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treyporfavor
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05.28.2012 | 3:04 PM ET

i think what ur saying makes a lot of sense, although it takes a huge weapon away on the ground, it'd open up the entire realm of deep half (probably the easiest sweeps imo). I think elbows should probably still be legal but I've been training to take an amateur mma fight (elbows not allowed) soon and one of the main sweeps ive been working is from deep half.

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WishIsHere
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05.28.2012 | 3:04 PM ET

If they ever allowed kicks on the ground again, Shogun would be the LHW champ. Is there anyone that has more finishes by kicks/stomps to a downed opponent? He has more finishes that way than even Wanderlei.



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Brazilian Jitz
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05.28.2012 | 3:09 PM ET

Yes, I know it seems paradoxical, but when grapplers are more comfortable on the ground, knowing they cant be obliterated by any strike, they will go for more subs, sweeps and it would be highly entertaining ,... or you can have the guy on the ground just hold on for dear life and turtle up as we usually see.

* Edited at 05.28.2012, 3:11 PM ET *

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Brazilian Jitz
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05.28.2012 | 3:11 PM ET

I would love to see some deep half sweeps in MMA, you rarely see it, but in BJJ tournys you see them all the time.

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AnikM
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05.28.2012 | 3:14 PM ET

@Live2wrestle wrong choice of words, it's not gonna get rid of lay n'pray, it'll just be more dangerous TO lay n'pray.

@WishIsHere And Jose Aldo would...STILL be the FW champ.

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AnAlias
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05.28.2012 | 3:15 PM ET

That's because those are BJJ tourneys, not fights.  There are lots of techniques that work in BJJ , but don't in a real fight (some not just because of elbows).  If sweeps from deep half guard are among them, so be it.  Some fighters like Miguel Torres and Big Nog make it work in MMA, but most get smashed when they try.  I'm fine with that.

* Edited at 05.28.2012, 3:18 PM ET *

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joe kerr
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05.28.2012 | 3:21 PM ET

I was a big fan of Pride, but my biggest problem with them was the ring. For me the thing that most interferes with grappling is the ring. Too little space, too many chances of falling into the ropes or even through the ropes. I much prefer a cage (unless it's a cheap crappy cage, like in some indy promotions where guys can actually both fall out of the cage while in a clinch or rolling), it not only helps to keep the fight contained, it also adds more elements to the overall strategy.

"If the enemy rejects the ground, I would take him down by tackle. Why didn’t he [Royler] do so? May I introduce him to a good coach? His tackle was... like a girl’s one... Mr. Royler, how are you feeling?" - Kazushi Sakuraba

Dodgey
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05.28.2012 | 3:31 PM ET

Maybe in ballet.

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Piercerdan
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05.28.2012 | 3:52 PM ET

more strikes the better if you ask me.  I love bjj but if you cant operate in a fight with it, what function does it serve?  If you were in a street fight and someone was punching you in the face and you couldnt get that arm bar or triangle choke whats the point of knowing it.  Ive watched fighters pretty much bob and weave on their backs and i think all the strikes that arent headbutts, eye strikes, and groin strikes should be allowed.

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Dodgey
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05.28.2012 | 4:04 PM ET

I don't get it, you can pick a guy up and drive him head first into a hard surface which puts the slamee at risk of god knows what spine and neck injuries but you're worried about elbows? I don't even agree with the 12 to 6 elbow rule because the origin of that rule is BS IMO.

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joe kerr
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05.28.2012 | 4:06 PM ET

Actually under the Unified Rules you can't drive a guy head first into the ground.

"If the enemy rejects the ground, I would take him down by tackle. Why didn’t he [Royler] do so? May I introduce him to a good coach? His tackle was... like a girl’s one... Mr. Royler, how are you feeling?" - Kazushi Sakuraba

MQuestionable
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05.28.2012 | 4:07 PM ET

I love grounded elbows





@Nik Your picture of Marvin Eastman's facial vagina in the first post is from a knee lol.

* Edited at 05.28.2012, 4:08 PM ET *

Dodgey
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05.28.2012 | 4:08 PM ET

really???? ^^




* Edited at 05.28.2012, 4:09 PM ET *

"I'm just a ordinary guy with exceptional hair, nothing more, nothing less" Kenny Powers

AnikM
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05.28.2012 | 4:10 PM ET

ya, you can't do that. he wasn't driven head first, at least that wasn't the intention.

Like you can't piledrive anyone.

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MQuestionable
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05.28.2012 | 4:12 PM ET

@Dodgey It's one of those gray areas like "no twelve to six elbows unless you curve them by one degree."  The rules say it's illegal to "spike an opponent on their head or neck".

http://www.ufc.com/discover/sport/rules-and-regulations#15 


This is legal




Dodgey
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05.28.2012 | 4:16 PM ET

@MQ cool thanks for clearing that up man, I do think that banning elbows off the ground is a slippery slope though.

"I'm just a ordinary guy with exceptional hair, nothing more, nothing less" Kenny Powers

joe kerr
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05.28.2012 | 4:19 PM ET

@Dodgey, yes, really. See here under Fouls, point 27. A slam is something different and you can see in that clip that Rampage is not actually driving him head first into the ground. Of course the risk is always there and there's no guarantee how the slammed fighter will land, but I just wanted to point out that it's not a premeditated head-first-into-the-ground.

Edit: @MQ, exactly, and if you remember that fight, there was actually a debate during that slam whether it was a "piledriver" or a slam and after a replay they concluded that it wasn't a "head-first".

* Edited at 05.28.2012, 4:21 PM ET *

"If the enemy rejects the ground, I would take him down by tackle. Why didn’t he [Royler] do so? May I introduce him to a good coach? His tackle was... like a girl’s one... Mr. Royler, how are you feeling?" - Kazushi Sakuraba

Dodgey
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05.28.2012 | 4:24 PM ET

Thanks @Kerr this has been enlightening also @MQ gif is hard core.

* Edited at 05.28.2012, 4:24 PM ET *

"I'm just a ordinary guy with exceptional hair, nothing more, nothing less" Kenny Powers

jaykool777
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05.28.2012 | 5:31 PM ET

Punches can cause the same terrible cuts as elbows, so should punches and kicks be illegal in MMA? Come on people, this is a gladiator sport, and guess what? In gladiator sports, people get hurt, bones get broken, and faces get cut. Don't like it, don't watch.

I'm not only a fan of elbows in MMA, I think they should re-instate knees to the head of a downed opponent (it would keep those who like to lay 'n' pray and wall 'n'stall from just restorting to wrestlefucking an opponent to death), and soccerkicks.

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