Gamebred Fighting Championship

There official results add on to their record according to Sherdog, UFC, Wiki. 

On here, they're labelled custom rules bouts that don't go on to their record?

@TCE do you mean because of the soccer kicks/etc?  Because there is a clear lineage back to the start of MMA in the 1990's with this rule-set, and it remains a standard in that part of the world. All major promoters, journalists, record-keepers, etc have widely accepted that these kick/knee differences are considered MMA. The same cannot be said for bare knuckle, which is a new change to the rules.

And for what it's worth, the purpose of the removal of the gloves seems to solely be to make it more "extreme" as a marketing gimmick. I don't think people are tuning into the bare knuckle events because they find the MMA matchmaking to be compelling. I'd argue they are tuning in because of the hope for extra violence.

in my humble opinion, bare knuckle fighters are brainless or on right track to become brainless, there is no "Arts" in ******* up your fists and doing extra damage with them. I find MMA beautiful because there are ways to have your brain not damaged if you fight smart, love the blood and all but let street fights remain on street. Do not promote ******* your body up, it'll bring people being more sceptical about fight game in generalm

@Gregory. Thank you for the discussion. You do an amazing job with this website. Keep up the good work :)

@ Greg RE Bareknuckle: Your point is about the removal of gloves is, as I see it, both true and untrue. It's true that promotions like BKFC are in all probability putting on BKF because that's the draw. Otherwise, they'd just be another  micro-promotion in the world of Boxing that nobody gave a **** about. No gloves is the draw.

However, bare knuckle Boxing, while not professional Boxing, is the oldest form of Boxing there is. It's definitely not a modern invention. People had been climbing into circles and punching each other in the face a loooong time before the inclusion of gloves in the 1700's. Think about it this way:It is known that in 7BC, Boxing was a sport in the Olympic games. It is the second-oldest martial art in the world. Only wrestling is regarded as older.

I don't really object to it per se. What I object to are the feloniously dangerous mismatches promotions like BKFC book.

* Edited at 11.18.2021, 5:51 PM ET *

Igor Vovchanchyn started his MMA career doing gloveless MMA bouts, guess back than more so Vale Tudo, but still it's been added to the database as wins and losses on his pro career. Igor's debut in Warrior's Honour was all gloveless MMA. I believe this is the case also for Wanderlei Silva and his pro Vale Tudo career but were documented as wins on his records. If scissor kicks/soccer kicks are recognized, shouldn't gloveless MMA bouts be as well considering historically a number of fighters did them early in their career as professional MMA fighters. 

* Edited at 11.18.2021, 6:26 PM ET *

@casual yes, but it shouldn't be classified as the same thing as professional Boxing. It's too different.

@Casual008 could not have said it better myself. the thing is, this website is not an official MMA database, if they are the ones that are deciding and enforcing their own idea of MMA records. 

I love this website, it's very factual and informative, but you can't decide yourself if an MMA fight should go into the record book or not, when it's already an official professional MMA bout recognized by everyone but this website.

That's giving us a false MMA database. 

Anyway, doubt he'd change his mind. 

@Baldric Eggling I suppose so. I doubt there's much value in really arguing this because when boxing/MMA became 'modern' is an incredibly elusive thing to pin down. For starters if you consider Pride FC the beginning of modern MMA than 1997 is the date, but that same year UFC 12: Judgement Day happened and gloves were optional. Mark Coleman vs Dan Severn was for the Heavyweight belt and Severn opted for no gloves, he was fighting bareknuckle. 

Seems like everyone's gonna find a goalpost and go from there. I respect Greg's decisions, it's a great site and his judgement is better than mine when it comes to his website.

* Edited at 11.18.2021, 6:55 PM ET *

@Casual the difference is that by ~2000 the world of MMA concluded that gloves were essential and a required part of making the sport legitimate. Prior to this, gloves were not deemed essential, but people understood that it was still the lineage of the same full contact fighting sport. The same competitors just put on gloves and kept fighting professionally.


As a general (but not strict) guideline, most of the full contact fights in the 1990's are accepted into the Tapology database as MMA. Even though the name MMA did not yet exist, most observers/fighters/promoters generally understood that this was a specific fight sport that was developing and growing.  As long as the event was accepted as part of that sport AT THAT TIME, Tapology will honor the context of when the fights took place, and recognize them as MMA.

Much like basketball didn't used to have a 3 point line but we still think of it as the same sport and keep all the old those statistics in the same record book. Same thing as American football without forward passing allowed. Record-keepers for those sports will grandfather in the old stuff according to the rules at the time.


Now that gloves are adopted worldwide, and deemed a fundamental part of the rules of the sport, we will no longer accept NEW fights that don't use gloves.

@TCE again I think Tapology and Boxrec, leaders in their respective sports, are both on the same page. Bare Knuckle doesn't count towards a boxing record nor an MMA record.

Also, it's idealistic to think we can run this website without having to step in and make our own calls on things. The U.S. is pretty straightforward because we have good athletic commissions and good oversight. But around the world? It's crazy out there and we have shady promoters doing all kinds of weird things. We have no choice but to act as arbiter on various disputes and problems.

Got up to the part about good athletic commissions and oversight, stopped reading. Ortiz vs Liddel IV? Ali vs Holmes? Belfort vs Holyfield?

No. American committees and bodies of oversight are as nonsensical and corrupt as every other institution in the country. Worse, if anything.

That's like saying Manto Tshabalala was a good health minister, despite recommending AIDS be treated with lemons and garlic.

* Edited at 11.18.2021, 10:09 PM ET *

Your comparisons don't really make much sense to me. Beside the fact we're comparing introducing a new technique, forward pass, and something to reward riskier play, the 3-point line, to equipment even now some versions of Basketball don't recognize the 3-point line and we still consider it Basketball. FIBA and Olympic versions of 3x3 Basketball don't have a 3-point line but I wouldn't go so far as to say it not Basketball, it's just a different version of the same sport. 

@Gregory, when you mention Boxrec is on the same page as you regarding bare knuckle, isn't Boxrec the official boxing database there is? So they can kind of get away with not counting certain things tbh. I'm sure the commissions go with whatever they have on boxrec's database.

MMA has many different fighter databases. I'd say here (Tap) and Sherdog are the two biggest ones. There's obviously also Wiki, UG and MMA organization websites. I think not recognizing a professional organization holding professional MMA bouts just because they've removed the tiny bit of padding from their knuckes is strange. Especially when you (Tap) recognize Rizin and ONE MMA bouts with completely different rulesets. I just find it doesn't make sense. Plus, say if Gamebred FC gets massive world wide. You'll be the only MMA database that won't count their fights as professional MMA bouts. It would feel out of place to be honest.

So because Boxrec is the single major boxing database they can "get away with it" and therefore they get a pass? But for Tapology it's a bad thing? That doesn't make any sense. I'd say both Tapology and Boxrec have the strictest and best standards, and we are the leaders in our respective sports.  And we're trying to lead and set the correct example, even if that means going against what others are doing. I believe over time, our decision on Bare Knuckle will be widely accepted as the correct decision.

It honestly looks like a no-brainer to me. BK should just be placed in its own category. It will probably grow as a combat sport. More players will enter the market.

I do respect the questions and the debate, @TCE

Just not from me lol

To put in my two cents where they don't belong they have the same problem or even worse with BK as MMA the rules vary country to country.
England has had BKB "BOXING" for quite some time BKFC the US bigger show others exist, then there are the ruskies and ukraniums.
The latter two actually have bare knuckle kickboxing and bare knuckle mma no idea how sanctioned it is.
All is readily available on the youtub, they keep records in house and some share some ignore its hilarious.  

Baldric you seem to be agreeing with me.  But I just want TCE to know that while I'm debating him, I'm not upset by his challenging the policy.

I am, yes.

You're right about it IMO. It's a different deal and just isn't Professional Boxing.

* Edited at 11.19.2021, 4:04 PM ET *