Topic: Top Welterweights - 170 lbs.
Anthony Johnson is not getting the respect at WW
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- jeremy
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Going through some people's recent rankings and seeing Anthony Johnson slip to 19 on the consensus reminds me how short MMA memories can be. Johnson is still easily a top 10 welterweight, and in my view poses a more significant threat to GSP than Jake Shields, Jon Fitch or anyone else on the immediate horizon.
He's lost two fight by submission (a third if you count the eye poke against Kevin Burns that cost him the fight) so his weakness is clearly on the ground. But he is gigantic, has the reach, the standup skill, the athleticism, and most importantly has a ton of room to grow at age 26 with only 11 fights. He's been sidelined with a knee injury for almost a year now, which is almost certainly why he is being written off, but I would expect him to be back and knocking dudes out again very soon. Top ten WW for sure.
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- skelliher
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Like I've said in the past, it all comes down to how you compile your rankings. Personally, I only look at what a guy has actually accomplished in the cage. Who has he beaten and how has he beaten them. You cannot get into my Top Ten rankings without defeating a Top Ten fighter, or without defeating several men just outside of the Top Ten.
I agree with you in that Johnson is a more significant threat to GSP than Shields, Fitch, Koscheck, or Alves--maybe anyone else in that division--based on how his style matches up, but no, he is not a Top Ten WW in terms of his actual accomplishments.
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- Bigj383
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Anthony Johnson hasn't done much to warrant anything close to a top 10 ranking at WW. They man is nothing but Hype right now. Despite at one time having potential last I saw Anthony Johnson he was tremendously out of shape. Can he get back in shape and be a force that is a huge question mark. Even if he can get back in decent shape can he continue to fight at 170. He's 8-3 has lost to the top competition he's faced even some mediocre competition like Clemente. I can't make a guess how a guy will perform I can only asses how he has performed. If we were always correct about a fighters potential or pick rates would be close to 100% than 50%. Our assessment of a persons abilities vs another's is only right about 60% of the time but our assessment of their wins is right cause all you have to do is look. You have Kos at 9 and Johnson at 6 but Kos submitted Johnson, despite Kos faking the injures it didn't change the outcome of the fight. You can say you think Johnson is better than Kos but I know Kos beat him. Not to mention his inactivity, he's been out with Injury for over a year.
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- thiagosilva9794
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na hes not top 10 wen u look at the depth of competition at ww besides for gsp but i personally tink sheilds will beat gsp :)
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- SlackBrian
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I'd still be surprised if Johnson is able to come back to welterweight consistently. He's always had trouble making weight, and a lingering knee injury is going to make that even more difficult. Outside of that, he's never really done anything to warrant a placement among the 10 best. For someone like Johnson, he could theoretically be placed in a top 10 list of best WW prospects, or fighters with the most potential, but I would tend to agree with the above that the overall rankings should be about what a fighter has accomplished, and not what they might be capable of accomplishing.
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- jeremy
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If the ranking is based solely on what has been accomplished to date, then yes, I have to agree Johnson doesn't deserve a top ten placement, either now or at any prior point in his career. But it comes back to Skelliher's point; there are different ways to assess top ten rankings, and if one of them is whom you believe would actually walk out victorious from a one-on-one encounter in the cage, I do think Johnson deserves a top ten ranking on that basis. I think guys like Lytle and Kampmann, and even Shields and Condit, would struggle against Johnson due to his standup speed and power. It remains to be seen if he'll make 170 again, but I don't put too much stock in pics showing him looking heavy and out of shape; he's rehabbing a knee injury.
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- SlackBrian
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True enough, but a knee injury for a fighter who struggled under the best circumstances to make 170 could be the kiss of death to Johnson's WW career. His first fight back is going to be a mighty struggle, I think.
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- Gregory
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Man look at that photo of Anthony Johnson. That's definitely a "I've got a pint of chocolate chip cookie dough waiting for me at home" grin on his face. I can't put him in my top 10 right now but we'll see.
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- jeremy
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If he comes back too fast, like Shogun did, he'll suffer for it without question. The top of the 170 division is a shark tank. But what Shogun also proved is that if you treat a knee injury correctly and give it time you can come back to 100%. The technology for treating knee injuries has really accelerated in the last ten years as well. In the NBA, for example, the difference in recovery time for knee injuries today versus in the mid 90s is night and day.
Anyway, that's beside the point. The point is it's in Johnson's hands to decide how professionally he treats his down time and recovery period after injury. If he's a pro about it, he should be ok. If he eats the entire Taco Bell menu every other night, it'll show in the cage and I'll need to figure out a way to erase this thread where I say how great he is.
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- jaykool777
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Anthony Johson has all the potential in the world to be one of the greatest WW fighters of all time, but potential means absolutely d*ck, if you don't improve yourself as a fighter. Johnson has remained relatively the same fighter since he first came to the UFC. His submission defense is still atrocious. If he plans on making a run at the title, he has to improve his submission defense and all around grappling game.
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- Heroak
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Ellenberger deserves to be in the top ten imo
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- jaykool777
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@heroak - I think Ellenberger is definitely on his way up, but he hasn't had a really true notable win for me to rank him top 10 just yet. If he beats someone the likes of Anthony Johson, Thiago Alves, or Diego Sanchez, then I could see making him top 10. He's definitely top 15.
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- jaykool777
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Ooooh, now that I think about it. Ellenberger vs. Penn would be a really good fight, or Ellenberger/Diaz.
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- Heroak
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You realize he lost a split decision to your #5 guy? That fight couldve gone either way.
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- SoccerKick
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I agree Ellenberger is getting to top 10 level...He's impressed me every fight I've seen of his to date
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- Dannotheman
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Rumble is just inside my top 10 at the moment. I want to see how his submission D and grappling holds up against a great jiu-jitsu or wrestler. He already got outwrestled by Koscheck so he needs to improve that.
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- Kalibo
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I can't see putting AJ ahead of Martin or Diego.. just can't @Jeremy. He's a fringe top 10 guy to me. Although, my stun gun ranking is a little optomistic :)
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- Heroak
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I have him at 9 kalibo, i think he is top 10. I also think Ellenberger would beat Johnson in a really exciting fight. I do have a question about your rankings tho, you have Fitch at #2 but you have Penn all the way down at #9 when they just fought to a draw, you dont think they should be a little closer?
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- Kalibo
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I did that b/c it was his 2nd fight back at WW and he is talking of fighting at LW again.. I recently did that.. I did have BJ at 4 I think. I am basing this ranking of only this "stint" at WW and beating an aging, unranked Hughes was awesome it it's fassion and drawing Fitch was a nice accomplishment, he really faded down the streatch and looking at the body of work, I'll give him is top 10 spot and wait for his next fight to see if he deserves a top 5 spot.
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- thabestevah
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I don't believe AJ was ever a top ten guy... Maybe he was for a very short stint for some... I am a huge fan of the guy... One of my favorite fighters actually. The fact is he has lost to guy who aren't very good and never beaten anyone who really was good before the Hardy fight... How good Hardy is is obviously up for discussion. Johnson is just cracking the top 15 to be honest.
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- Yaspaa
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He's too frickin' massive to not be top ten. If he applies himself he's a beast.