Topic: Jon Jones

Jon Jones's T/E Ratios

Forum Home | Topic Page | Fighter Page Help

Anonymous Mode

You are not logged in to Tapology. When browsing anonymously, profanities and images are automatically removed from the forum.

skelliher

Location: Boston, MA
Member Since: 2010.05.24
Predictions: 5,670 | 63.4%
Forum Posts: 11,051
Post Score: 245

01.07.2015 | 10:07 PM ET

Thought people might be interested in discussing the (in my opinion) more important issue than the current cocaine mania that's conveniently masking anything else we may have discovered in these random tests.

Some digging on r/mma churned up a treasure trove of implications. Posted some important info to mull over.

Dr. Johnny Benjamin‏@DrJCBenjamin

@erikmagraken When I see a very low T/E ratio I'm concerned that exogenous (outside the body) T & epi- T are being administered

Victor Conte‏@VictorConte

Does Nevada comm/ @ufc have the balls to do CIR testing on all 3 urine samples collected from Jon Jones? IMO. All 3 results are SUSPICIOUS

[–]CaptainAerosex[S] 45 points 11 hours ago

This isn't at all a scientific assumptuon, but it might help put things in perspective: average Joe has a ratio of 1:1 with T levels of 600 ng/dL in their blood. A 0.29:1.00 T:E ratio (71% decrease in T from a 1:1 ratio; for reference the removal of your testicles would result in a 90% decrease) would indicate a T level of 174 ng/DL. Below 300 is considered low.

Now, if JBJ had higher levels of T, he could drop off and still be above that 300 marker but such a decrease in T (or something more incriminating: an increase in E) is dramatic.

[–]RayMDUnited States 83 points 10 hours ago

I wouldn't bet my medical license on it since he is not my patient and I didn't examine him, but his T:E ratio isn't what I would expect from a young male in his physical prime. There are a lot of zebras out there that can cause this, but I think we should stick to the horse we all know. I agree with you OP, and I can't wait to see what his ratio is once his post fight tests come back.

"When a game cannot be won, change the game."

Fighter Details

Given Name: Jonathan Dwight Jones
Pro MMA Record: 27-1-0, 1 NC (Win-Loss-Draw)
Nickname: Bones
Current Streak: 18 Wins
Age: 1987-07-19 | Date of Birth: 1987.07.19
Last Fight: March 04, 2023 in UFC
Weight Class: Heavyweight | Last Weigh-In: 248.0 lbs
Affiliation: Jackson Wink MMA
Height: 6'4" (194cm) | Reach: 84.5" (215cm)
Career Disclosed Earnings: $4,568,000 USD
Born: Rochester, New York, United States
Fighting out of: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Head Coach: Greg Jackson
Other Coaches: N/A
Fighter Links:
Personal Links:

Responses Page 2
« First ‹ Prev 1 2 3 Next › Last »

CthulhuJones

Member Since: 2012.08.02
Predictions: 40,133 | 60.1%
Forum Posts: 9,674
Post Score: 286

01.08.2015 | 9:06 AM ET

Seriously, think about it. If all this **** happened to a guy like Mighty Mouse who is arguably the top P4P fighter in the world he'd more than likely be stripped of his title simply because he's the flyweight champion and flyweights don't draw PPV buys. This, to me, is one of the most ****** up things to happen in the UFC in a while. It's almost like Jon Jones could go War Machine and almost kill two people, go into rehab for anger issues, and Dana White would come out and praise him for taking responsibility for his actions and trying to get help. "I applaud him for getting help, and it's a great thing he was caught. He'll hopefully get the help he needs and come back a much stronger fighter."

Dana White and the UFC are basically doing this to every other fighter on the roster:

* Edited at 01.08.2015, 9:08 AM ET *

This user is suspended from posting until 1 year, 6 months, 5 hours, and 17 minutes from now.

CthulhuJones

Member Since: 2012.08.02
Predictions: 40,133 | 60.1%
Forum Posts: 9,674
Post Score: 286

01.08.2015 | 9:31 AM ET

My Rankings: Jon Jones

This user is suspended from posting until 1 year, 6 months, 5 hours, and 17 minutes from now.

cal1

Location: VA
Member Since: 2012.06.13
Predictions: 22,053 | 63.5%
Forum Posts: 5,001
Post Score: 251

01.08.2015 | 9:58 AM ET

You couldn't have lost an AV bet at a better (worse?) time CJ

"UFC 151 NEVER FORGET"

CthulhuJones

Member Since: 2012.08.02
Predictions: 40,133 | 60.1%
Forum Posts: 9,674
Post Score: 286

01.08.2015 | 9:59 AM ET

Yeah, I pretty much hate myself for having this AV. It makes my soul hurt.

This user is suspended from posting until 1 year, 6 months, 5 hours, and 17 minutes from now.

thiagosilva9794

Location: Ireland.
Member Since: 2010.11.25
Predictions: 5,113 | 60.4%
Forum Posts: 11,315
Post Score: 142

01.08.2015 | 1:45 PM ET

Surely too many people have seen this by now for the UFC to just throw this under the rug?

"I really feel like I'm the most dangerous guy out there" BJ Penn........... UFC on Fox 2 event winner :)

psychicdeath

Location: Ohio
Member Since: 2010.12.29
Predictions: 38,296 | 62.9%
Forum Posts: 3,198
Post Score: 261

01.08.2015 | 2:08 PM ET

I'm not so sure. People who follow the sport will know about the T/E ratio concerns and have their suspicions. They might complain about how the UFC handles it (or more likely ignores it...), but the mass audience of casual fans will likely never hear about anything but the coke.

"I shall not cause harm to any vehicle nor the personal contents thereof, nor through inaction let that vehicle or the personal contents thereof come to harm. It's what I call the Repo Code, kid. "

yossgold

Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Member Since: 2012.07.25
Predictions: 67,502 | 62.2%
Forum Posts: 14,550
Post Score: 295

01.08.2015 | 2:21 PM ET

@thiago, the UFC nor NSAC can do anything about it. No rules against low T/E ratios. As long as no masking substance is found it's legal. Weird and implying, but legal.

"Hay lohh you Mike, ay lov you Mike. Hyou say somesing like di fo me, and naw I say you ... I LOV YOU! See you som. Boy." -- Yoel Romero, UFC 205

skelliher

Location: Boston, MA
Member Since: 2010.05.24
Predictions: 5,670 | 63.4%
Forum Posts: 11,051
Post Score: 245

01.08.2015 | 2:34 PM ET

Right ... basically this is damaging to his image among hardcore fans, but he'll dodge a bullet if a CIR test doesn't show synthetic T or E. If they perform CIR tests on the urine samples and find synthetic T/E, then that's popping for a PED. If, however, it turns up inconclusive, he'll be "not guilty," albeit far from innocent in the eyes of hardcores.

Was thinking when the coke story emerged that this will make him an even bigger star and make him turn full larger-than-life, Tyson/Mayweather figure. Combat sports has a long and storied history of troubled and troublesome figures, hence their mainstream appeal ... but I never suspected it could conveniently coke-screen potential PED use.

Would be nuts if confirmed.

"When a game cannot be won, change the game."

Bigj383

Location: San Diego
Member Since: 2010.10.12
Predictions: 8,546 | 63.8%
Forum Posts: 5,417
Post Score: 187

01.08.2015 | 3:31 PM ET

People are going crazy speculating on assumptions that are totally meaningless. So called MMA media create click bate articles to drive up traffic by implying a polarizing figure could possibly be taking PEDs.

People keep saying if any non-champ caught with Cocaine would be cut immediately and we know with 100% certainty that isn't true. We know because Melvin Guillard was caught with Cocaine in his system in a post fight drug test and was back in the ring 8 months later. No other champ has tested positive for recreational drugs out of competition as it isn't even supposed to be tested for and I doubt they would be stripped if they were. Quinton Jackson went on a Rampage in his truck and UFC stood beside him as well. UFC more often than not has stood beside fighters especially big name fighters, those who get cut have often had warning after warning and keep doing the same thing like Matt Riddle or just a string of bad things like Thiago Silva.

"It does not make sense that humans deliberately malfunction. - Upgrade"

CthulhuJones

Member Since: 2012.08.02
Predictions: 40,133 | 60.1%
Forum Posts: 9,674
Post Score: 286

01.08.2015 | 3:42 PM ET

String of bad things like a DUI, brawl at a prefight staredown, and then testing positive for cocaine? Seems like a pretty ****** up string of behavior.

This user is suspended from posting until 1 year, 6 months, 5 hours, and 17 minutes from now.

skelliher

Location: Boston, MA
Member Since: 2010.05.24
Predictions: 5,670 | 63.4%
Forum Posts: 11,051
Post Score: 245

01.08.2015 | 4:38 PM ET

@BigJ ... care to actually respond to the subject of the thread? Which is Jones's medically-unexplained T/E ratios? They're basically off the charts in terms of how low and abnormal they are ... on three separate tests.

"When a game cannot be won, change the game."

Bigj383

Location: San Diego
Member Since: 2010.10.12
Predictions: 8,546 | 63.8%
Forum Posts: 5,417
Post Score: 187

01.08.2015 | 4:57 PM ET

Like people said there is no way to know if there is an abnormality without a baseline to begin with. I already said much of the accusation are really nothing but wild speculation and nobody can offer anything beyond that. I can speculate that he simply has low testosterone levels. If he actually tests positie for a PED and once he actually breaks a rule then we can start calling for disciplinary action but not until then. Anything before that just sounds like a bunch a whiney haters hoping to find any reason to get the belt off of Jones. If Jones loses in the ring great but what kind of BS moral victory is it to take it on a technicality and what kind of *******s or we to try to steal a man's livelihood who is clearly the best in the game right now, and for what reason a little cocaine a DUI.... who gives a ****. How many times did Chris Leben test positive for steroids and painkillers and he had a DUI as well but remains a fan favorite for years. It's some moral high ground ******** and people acting fake shocked and pretending UFC hasn't looked the other way dozens of times before for numerous other fighters.

* Edited at 01.08.2015, 5:00 PM ET *

"It does not make sense that humans deliberately malfunction. - Upgrade"

psychicdeath

Location: Ohio
Member Since: 2010.12.29
Predictions: 38,296 | 62.9%
Forum Posts: 3,198
Post Score: 261

01.08.2015 | 5:18 PM ET

The cocaine is not the issue. It isn't banned out of competition, so the NSAC cannot punish him for that. (...although it could constitute a violation of the UFC Fighter Conduct policy, but the UFC has the discretion to act or not as it sees fit. At the moment, it looks like the UFC is not going to take any action, which is fine.)

The bigger issue is the red flag raised by the hormone tests. The low T/E ratios don't prove anything either way, and are not a violation in and of themselves. They do, however, raise some questions that warrant further investigation. Luckily, the samples still exist and the commission can settle it once and for all with a relatively inexpensive Carbon Isotope Ratio (CIR) test on one or more of the existing samples. If the CIR shows that the testosterone is naturally occurring, then Jones is in the clear, and speculation can stop.

But if the CIR shows any synthetic testosterone, then it would be definitive proof that he was using banned substances, and would be subject to NSAC sanctions.

"I shall not cause harm to any vehicle nor the personal contents thereof, nor through inaction let that vehicle or the personal contents thereof come to harm. It's what I call the Repo Code, kid. "

skelliher

Location: Boston, MA
Member Since: 2010.05.24
Predictions: 5,670 | 63.4%
Forum Posts: 11,051
Post Score: 245

01.08.2015 | 5:20 PM ET

@BigJ ... every single medical professional who has commented on the situation has said it would be impossible for an athletic specimen like Jones to have hormone levels ten times lower than the average black male unless he literally had a medical condition ... which would naturally prevent him from being the ******* UFC champion.

"When a game cannot be won, change the game."

Lopati

Location: Hillsboro, OR, 97123
Member Since: 2011.08.05
Predictions: 18,574 | 61.4%
Forum Posts: 13,352
Post Score: 179

01.08.2015 | 5:51 PM ET

I love how the test clearly states: CONFIDENTIAL TEST REPORT

"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it." Jose Ortega y Gasset

psychicdeath

Location: Ohio
Member Since: 2010.12.29
Predictions: 38,296 | 62.9%
Forum Posts: 3,198
Post Score: 261

01.08.2015 | 6:01 PM ET

True, but that's just an internal marking of the lab for HIPAA purposes, ensuring the results are confidential between the testing lab and the client, the NSAC. (Meaning the lab can't release the results to anyone but the athletic commission). Once the NSAC is in possession of the report, they are free to release it. (and may actually be required to release it, depending on their rules).

* Edited at 01.08.2015, 6:01 PM ET *

"I shall not cause harm to any vehicle nor the personal contents thereof, nor through inaction let that vehicle or the personal contents thereof come to harm. It's what I call the Repo Code, kid. "

legacyofmisfortune

Location: Mexico
Member Since: 2011.10.13
Predictions: 14,159 | 63.5%
Forum Posts: 5,349
Post Score: 240

01.08.2015 | 6:09 PM ET

@Lopati what happens on the internets stays on the internets

"he is going to the hospital, and im going to the after party, ha ha ha" Nate Diaz

Bigj383

Location: San Diego
Member Since: 2010.10.12
Predictions: 8,546 | 63.8%
Forum Posts: 5,417
Post Score: 187

01.08.2015 | 6:28 PM ET

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2323898-nsac-director-bennett-cit-testing-done-on-jones-sample-all-came-back-clean

CIR testing was done on Jones and came back clean. You want to speculate on that?

* Edited at 01.08.2015, 6:31 PM ET *

"It does not make sense that humans deliberately malfunction. - Upgrade"

psychicdeath

Location: Ohio
Member Since: 2010.12.29
Predictions: 38,296 | 62.9%
Forum Posts: 3,198
Post Score: 261

01.08.2015 | 6:31 PM ET

And the point is moot. Apparently the NSAC did the CIR tests on the prefight samples and they came back clean, so no indication that Jones was juicing.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/1/8/7517663/nevada-athletic-commission-head-jon-jones-testosterone-clean-prior-to

* Edited at 01.08.2015, 6:31 PM ET *

"I shall not cause harm to any vehicle nor the personal contents thereof, nor through inaction let that vehicle or the personal contents thereof come to harm. It's what I call the Repo Code, kid. "

benjaminbrandt

Member Since: 2011.01.02
Predictions: 18,270 | 65.6%
Forum Posts: 15,716
Post Score: 229

01.08.2015 | 8:27 PM ET

Perhaps much ado about nothing.

on Dec. 4, Jones' T/E ratios came up as .29 and .35.
On Dec. 18, his T/E ratio came up as .19.

By contrast, Daniel Cormier, Jones' opponent at UFC 182, had a T/E ratio of .4 on Dec. 2 and .48 on Dec. 17.

The .19 is way out of line, but Jones' .35 isn't that far from DC's .4

"I have not yet begun to defile myself. "

Page 2
« First ‹ Prev 1 2 3 Next › Last »

Forum Home | Topic Page | Fighter Page Help

You must be signed in to reply. Sign in or register to join the discussion.

As an anonymous reader, profanities and images are automatically removed from the forum.

Event		Start Time
PFL 3		04.19.2024, 7:00 PM ET
Cage Warriors 171		04.20.2024, 7:30 AM ET
OKTAGON 56		04.20.2024, 8:00 AM ET
Haney vs. Garcia		04.20.2024, 5:00 PM ET
LFA 182		04.26.2024, 6:00 PM ET
UFC Fight Night		04.27.2024, 4:00 PM ET
ONE Fight Night 22		05.03.2024, 7:00 PM ET
OKTAGON 57		05.04.2024, 8:00 AM ET

Women's Flyweight - 125 \| edit
Alexa Grasso
Valentina "Bullet" Shevchenko
Manon "The Beast" Fiorot
Erin "Cold Blooded" Blanchfield
Maycee "The Future" Barber
Katlyn "Blonde Fighter" Cerminara
Taila Santos
Natália Silva

Topic: Jon Jones

Jon Jones's T/E Ratios

Anonymous Mode

Fighter Details

Responses Page 2 « First ‹ Prev 1 2 3 Next › Last »

Page 2 « First ‹ Prev 1 2 3 Next › Last »

Responses Page 2
« First ‹ Prev 1 2 3 Next › Last »

Page 2
« First ‹ Prev 1 2 3 Next › Last »