Holloway vs. Miller

This is the official discussion thread for Holloway vs. Miller. Let's see what you've got.

Battle of the lanks.

RIP in peace Magrinho. Liek dis if u cry evrytim.

I really used to dislike holloway, but now I'd count him he's one of my favourite fighters, he's definitely the future of the division and the UFCUFC

So apparently my ipad auto corrects ufc to UFCUFC

I was hoping Jim Miller jumped down in weight and was fighting Holloway when I read this.  Holloway was.brought up quick at first, considering he doesn't have 15 pro fights yet and his 3 losses are to three top 10 fighters.....it's nice that the UFC seees the kids potential and is bringing him up nice and slow now.

I have grown to like Holloway.....only way he loses is by submission...Good luck to Cole Miller. A win could revive his Ufc career.

Only chance Miller has is to go for the takedown.  He'll get destroyed on the feet.  Halloway with stay away from Millers takedowns and KO him in the 2nd.

If Miller is smart he'll get this to the ground. His grappling is legit. And Holloway has been handled on the ground by worse grapplers.

What "worse grapplers" has Holloway been owned by? Poirier? McGregor? I know they aren't as heralded for their "jiu jitsu" but in reality, they're probably better grapplers than Cole Miller...simply put, Conor is certainly of a different class mentally, physically, athletically, and as a martial artist. I'd argue Poirier is too and regardless, Poirier is a great grappler but Holloway fought him with only a few pro fights, on short notice when he was like a teenager. 

Your statement is ignorant and I don't think you know what you're talking about. @SlamDistraction

Cant wait for Holloway to beat the brakes off Cole!

You honestly think Poirier is a better grappler than Miller? He probably has better wrestling, but have you seen what happens when Miller gets on you on the ground?

Listen, Miller is an authentic black belt under Ricardo Liborio and Marcos Da Matta, who are both Carlson Gracie black belts. Poirier is only a brown belt, under Tim Credeur, who is a Cavalcante student. Cavalcante is legit, maybe Credeur is, I don't know. McGregor is a brown belt under Kavanagh, who is a black belt under I couldn't find out who. Kavanagh has a European Championships win.

Fact of the matter is, everyone you named only has grappling credentials in "jiu-jitsu" (which doesn't become an imaginary thing if you put it in quotes), and Miller by far has the most legit credentials in BJJ of all the guys you named.

Your logic is basic, you are basic. 

Gucci, Gucci, Louis, Louis, Fendi, Fendi, Prada, basic ******* wear that **** so I don't even botha.

* Edited at 02.14.2015, 5:15 PM ET *

@slamdistraction, what exactly does happen when Miller get "you" on the ground? Who's his biggest name he's submitted? Ross Pearson 5 years ago? ADCC multi-time world champ Sam Sicilia? Don't get me wrong, Miller's Jitz is top notch, but in MMA today it's not enough. Andy Ogle "survived him", Nam Phan and Steven Siler "managed to not get submitted" by him (please don't go back any further than 2010 to try and make any points). 

Holloway isn't Sam Sicilia ... **** holloway isn't Phan, Siler, Ogle or anything like anyone Cole's faced in the last few years. The fact that Cole's got great jitz doesn't mean "he wins if it goes to the ground bro, cause Poirier bro". Watch the fights. Watch the Bermudez fight. Understand which exact version of Max Holloway fought Poirier and which version of him's fighting Miller. Are you so positive Cole's ability to finish a fight on the mat against a top level opponent is so much better than McGregor's? Where was that against Andy Ogle (he took him down twice yet the magical submission didn't come)? (Notice I'm not even mentioning Gamburyan because he's a very tough vet, so it's legit not being able to finish him, but he "survived" Cole too even though Cole took him down 5 times)

Don't go the the knee-jerk reaction.

By the way, I'm in no way or form saying that Miller has no chance to submit Holloway, but also this "killer instinct" you're attributing to Miller is from different times against a different level of opponents. Also, the fact that Poirier is a better wrestler than Cole (your words) is THE difference between Poirier managing to submit (debuting, 11 days notice, teen, 4 fights vet against dudes without a wikipedia page) Holloway and Miller maybe not being able to. This is an MMA fight not a pure BJJ tournament. Being a better wrestler gives you a better chance of ending up submitting your opponent. In the Siler (1/5), Phan (0/1) and Ogle (2/6) fights Miller got 3 TDs on 12 attempts. Not being able to dictate where the fight goes has a tendency to nullify your submission skills., especially when you're going to be so outclassed on your feet it's not even going to be funny.

* Edited at 02.14.2015, 5:38 PM ET *

Also, it's not the Ultimate Credentials Championship. When will people learn.

Well I was responding specifically to what Nomad said. I never said Miller has a "killer instinct" and Max Holloway is not elite on the ground. I don't think Miller will easily submit every top featherweight by any means. However, Holloway has not shown great skills on the ground. I never said Miller will be able to get him down, but I will heavily favor him if it hits the ground. Holloway is obviously better on the feet, but he'll be at a reach disadvantage, which makes him perform significantly worse. Look at his fight with Fili, who is not a great striker, but Holloway had problems and thus decided to grapple with him.

And just because Holloway is top level doesn't mean he's top level everywhere, yoss. And you're asking if I'm really more confident in Miller than McGregor to submit a top guy? McGregor who has one submission win all time against a guy in Cage Warriors? Yeah I'm more confident in the guy who has a sub win over UFC level talent. Why aren't you?

Because I think that on account of Conor having better wrestling (at least that's how it seemed against a very tough to take down Holloway who was handled with ease on a torn ACL) he'd have an "easier" time finishing in an MMA fight than Miller had he needed to. I remind you, with all of his submission expertise, Miller hasn't been getting finishes left and right against the higher level guys as of late (nor many of the lower level guys at that). That's not because he lacks in skill of course, that's because in today's MMA you need other stuff to put you into the position since most guys know how to defend the basics. You need to wrestle them into place, frustrate them with striking. Conor can do that, Cole can't. Who's got the better jitz? Cole by a mile. Who's got the best chance of submitting high level guys? I think Conor.

You could be right, but there's no demonstrated evidence of it. As far as this fight went, I thought Miller had some crafty moments, but he just looked like he didn't want to try anymore after that first headbutt. Not that he has any future in the division, I just thought he'd work more actively to exploit Holloway on the ground.