Aldo vs. Edgar

This is the official discussion thread for Aldo vs. Edgar. Let's see what you've got.

+1 to Cthulu

"You can't just base winning a round or a fight off of damage"



 but the judges will keep seeing it that way, and Frankie will keep loosing some decs. 
however I still think Aldo won the fight, I think that a lot of those "punches" with no signinficant damage, doesn't count much, not when you are bleeding, swollen and bruised and your opponent looks fresh and untouched. Frankie landed 21 legkicks and Aldo wasn't bruised or limping, Frankie only recieved 9 legkicks but he was badly bruised, and was knocked down by one of them, Frankie hits his opponents but most of the time they don't flinch and the judges see that,  besides, Frankie didn't do much with the "takedowns", the slam was good but Aldo stand up in a second, the other one I think Aldo got up like in 5 sec.  and Fankie didn't landed a punch in either of them

http://www.ufc.com/discover/sport/rules-and-regulations

14. Judging


 

1. All bouts will be evaluated and scored by 3 judges who shall evaluate the contest from different location around the ring/fighting area. The referee may not be one of the 3 judges.
2. The 10-Point Must System will be the standard system of scoring a bout. Under the 10-Point Must Scoring System, 10 points must be awarded to the winner of the round and 9 points or less must be awarded to the loser, except for a rare even round, which is scored (10-10).
3. Judges shall evaluate mixed martial arts techniques, such as effective striking, effective grappling, control of the ring/fighting area, effective aggressiveness and defense.
4. Evaluations shall be made in the order in which the techniques appear in (c) above, giving the most weight in scoring to effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area and effective aggressiveness and defense.
5. Effective striking is judged by determining the total number of legal strikes landed by a contestant.
6. Effective grappling is judged by considering the amount of successful executions of a legal takedown and reversals. Examples of factors to consider are take downs from standing position to mount position, passing the guard to mount position, and bottom position fighters using an active threatening guard.
7. Fighting area control is judged by determining who is dictating the pace, location and position of the bout. Examples of factors to consider are countering a grappler's attempt at takedown by remaining standing and legally striking, taking down an opponent to force a ground fight, creating threatening submission attempts, passing the guard to achieve mount, and creating striking opportunities.
8. Effective aggressiveness means moving forward and landing a legal strike.
9. Effective defense means avoiding being struck, taken down or reversed while countering with offensive attacks.
10. The following objective scoring criteria shall be utilized by the judges when scoring a round:
1. a round is to be scored as a 10-10 round when both contestants appear to be fighting evenly and neither contestant shows clear dominance in a round;
2. a round is to be scored as a 10-9 round when a contestant wins by a close margin, landing the greater number of effective legal strikes, grappling and other maneuvers;
3. a round is to be scored as a 10-8 round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round.
4. a round is to be scored as a 10-7 round when a contestant totally dominates by striking or grappling in a round.
11. Judges shall use a sliding scale and recognize the length of time the fighters are either standing or on the ground, as follows:
1. if the mixed martial artists spent a majority of a round on the canvas, then:
1. Effective grappling is weighed first; and
2. Effective striking is then weighed
2. If the mixed martial artists spent a majority of a round standing, then:
1. Effective striking is weighed first; and
2. Effective grappling is then weighed
3. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round.
4. If a round ends with a relatively even amount of standing and canvas fighting, striking and grappling are weighed equally.

* Edited at 02.05.2013, 4:43 AM ET *

That's the criteria the judges are supposed to judge the fights off of, not their own criteria.

Aldo wins the fight under Pride rules but I do think Edgar won the fight under UFC rules.

I do understand a 48-47 score for Aldo but 49-46 is ridiculous especially considering the criteria they are supposed to judge off of.

Gramz, the new ABC guidelines state that 10-8 rounds are for clear rds and that offense should be valued more than defense, two improvements imo. And it's not just the number of strikes landed, it's effective striking so damage does come into play there.

@Mule, never implied it didn't.

I have more of a problem with the judges scoring it 49-46 than Aldo winning.

I wasn't saying you were implying it, your long post has the old guidelines listed where it says "

1. a round is to be scored as a 10-8 round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round."

Just by the standard of judging that is shown by Gramz post th 49-46 score makes sense, as does the 48-47. Watch the fight again..................

Round 1 - Aldo kept the fight on the feet, and scored the more strikes both by number and effectiveness. = 10-9 Aldo

Round 2 - The majority of the round was spent on the feet, and Aldo landed more strikes both by number and effectiveness. = 10-9 Aldo

Round 3 - Edgar did get a significant takedown, but the fight was on the feet for the majority of the round. The amount of strikes landed by both fighters in the round were about equal, but Aldo's strikes were more effective. = either a 10-9 round for Edgar or a 10-9 round for Aldo. Actually IMO this constitutes a 10-10 round.

Round 4 - Edgar landed more strikes, got the fight to the ground, and controled the majority of the round. = 10-9 Edgar.

Round 5 - A very back and forth round. Edgar may have landed more strikes, but Aldo's striking was more effective. Aldo was the aggressor, and controlled more of where the fight took place. 10-9 Aldo

By my score, I have the fight 49-47 for Aldo. The 3 judges scored the fight 49-46, 49-46, 48-47

I personally watched the fight over and over again, and IMO no matter how anybody saw the score Aldo was the winnner. In a championship fight you have to decisively beat the champion, and no matter what anybody thinks Edgar DID NOT decisively beat the champion. Not by number of strikes landed, not by effective striking, and not by points.

Most importantly - if you don't like the judges decisions, then don't leave a fight in the hands of the judges. 

There has been many times that I have seen bad decisions. Then there's the decisions that questionable or contraversial, and sometimes it's a just a case of I it's a bad decision because the fighter that I wanted to see win was the loser. Then there's others, where I think to myself, "What ******* fight were those judges watching?" Aldo/Edgar was not one of those fights. The right decision went to the fight winner.

Diego Sanchez/Martin Kampmann is a classic expample of a fight where I think the argument for a truly horrible decision happened, and I say to myself, "What ******* fight were those judges watching?". Tito Ortiz/Forrest Griffin I & III, Machida/Shogun I, Machida/Rampage, Randy Couture/Pedro Rizzo I, Frankie Edgar/Tyson Griffin, Edgar/Maynard II, Ben Henderson/Frankie Edgar I & II, and MM Johnson/McCall I are examples of fights that are controversial and questionable decisions. Penn/Edgar I, Condit/Diaz, Ortiz/Griffin II, Liddell/Belfort, Sanchez/Diaz, and Griffin/Rampage are examples of fights where it might be a questionable decsion, but in retrospect, it was probably more because the fighter I wanted to see win didn't.

Aldo/Edgar is not a fight in any of these categories. Edgar put up a very great and competitive fight, but in the end Aldo won. He was the champion coming into the fight, he landed more strikes by the FightMetric numbers, Edgar's entire left side was battered and bruised (which tells the story that Aldo landed the more effective strikes as well as landing more strikes), he won unanimously on all 3 judges scorecards, Dana White thinks that he won (so much so, that he doesn't see a precedent to grant Edgar and immediate rematch), all of the MMA analysts believe that Aldo won, and the large majority of MMA fans around the world believe that Aldo won the fight.

Hence..................Aldo won. 

@mule, gotcha.

@jaykool, Aldo did not control the pace and flow of the 5th Round even though he may have been delivering the more damaging strikes even going backwards while Frankie did deliver the higher amount of significant strikes and maintained Octagon Control almost throughout the whole round. Can't give him the round just based off one spectacular punch @ the end of the round, which I think the judges did.

Daniel Cormier, Chael Sonnen, Joe Lauzon, Nam Phan, Duane Ludwig, Din Thomas, Chris Weidman, Brock Jardine all scored the fight for Frankie and that's just off the top of my head. Benson Henderson and Ben Askren both said Frankie won the last 2 rounds and the 3rd Round should have been the deciding factor. I'm sure other fighters had the fight for Aldo but my point is that everybody didn't have the fight scored for Aldo.

I take a fighter's opinion more seriously than an analyst's. I have always wished the fights were judged by former fighters.

* Edited at 02.06.2013, 1:21 AM ET *

After rewatching the fight i do think edgar edged aldo out in the 5
he definitely won the 4
and the 3 was really really close

When Dana White says that he doesn't see enough to grant an immediate rematch, then that says that the right decision went out. Everybody knows how much Dana White hates bad decisions, and he agreed with the decision that Aldo won. Chael Sonnen did not say that Edgar won the fight. On the post fight show, he gave the fight to Aldo.

On another note, most MMA analysts are former or current fighters or trainers (Ariel Helwani and Jon Anik aren't, but who really cares what they have to say?). Kenny Florian, Rashad Evans, Chael Sonnen, Pat Miletich, Bas Rutten, and Brian Stann are all MMA analysts that are current or former UFC fighters. The great majority of those MMA analysts said that Aldo won the fight, Dana White feels that the right decision went out, and most importantly, when a challenger is facing a champion, the challenger has to decisively beat the champion. FightMetric, the judges scorecards, and the damage to Edgar's face and body tells a whole other story than that Edgar decisively beat the champion, let alone even outpoint Aldo, or win the fight.

Again, don't like bad decisions, don't leave a fight in the judges hands.

Edgar won the fight? Doesn't look like it to me

@jaykool yeah they should just have the judges get in the cage and look over the fighters and base their opinion off of damage. I'm not trying to advocate for a Edgar win. Aldo did win this fight but this notion that because a guy is swelled up he lost is insane. Like I said before Frankie gets hit once by anyone and his nose breaks and his eye swells up.

aldo had a clear win for the round 1 and 2 edgar for 4 and 5 and IMO he edged 3

Aldo won round 5.  No ifs, ands, or buts about it. 

The first 3 were easily Aldo, Frankie took the 4th, and the 5th was close but I gave it to Aldo. There is absolutely no way Frankie won that fight

I don't understand why everyone has to act like this is controversial...it's only controversial if you're a ******* dip**** who just listens to Joe Rogan instead of actually watching the fights.

There is no way Aldo lost in this fight. If Edgar was given the win, this would've been the biggest judging robbery in UFC history. This fight was a dominant Aldo victory, go watch the fight again.

If there is anything Frankie should have learned by now its that you are going to have a tough sell trying to convince someone you won when your opponent looks like he's about to START fighting and you look like you just went through a single night tournament.